Looking for pro video cam, can't decide.

[RockWood610]

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the forum here, and some what new to this video thing. I have been editing home movies and doing DVD projects for family and friends and for a hobby since 2004. I would like to step it up a notch and purchase a good pro video digital camera and do productions for local companies and weddings, ect, and the real reason why I want one is to get together with a couple of film friends that are going to collage with film related courses and do some short movies for online veiwing. And sit down interviews for projects of my own.

For editing, I originaly started out with Pinnacle Studio 8/9, and then jumped into Sony Vegas 7 for video editing, and I am about to upgrade to Vegas 8. I also have decent gear for home recording with audio. (Solid PC for all my uploading, video capturing, and editing, with a new PC being built for a major power upgrade.) I have condensor mics, instrument mics, monitors for mixing/mastering audio, Waves Diamond VST plugins for mastering and effects on audio, and currently I have a presonus firewire audio interface that records good clean mic signals.

Basicaly, a Semi pro steup good for my hobbies. The only thing I am lacking besides the advanced knowledge in video editing with Vegas is a good camera. I have been using mini DV consumer cameras forever, and now want a prosumer one.

Recently, Sony released what they call an entry level pro camera with 1080i HD DV recording. It is the Sony HVR-HD1000U. I have been doing research on this, and because it is a new product, its a little hard to get details. I did find a youtube user who has it and uploaded some videos on it. I would like a good quality camera with HD support since the technology is going that way, but I am reading a lot that this camera is nothing more but a consumer cam in a pro body. I was looking at it mainly for the entry pro quality and the really decent price tage (about $1,620.00 after taxes/shipping at B&H Video)

Before this camera, I was really eye-balling the Canon XL2 and Canon GL2. I like the idea of being able to have (or in the GL2's case) add XLR inputs. 3 CCD chips are also always nice, but the Sony model I was looking at is hyping up the 1 CMOS chip for HD. Can anyone shed some light on witch way I should go? I'd like to go HD, but I don't wanna spend any amount of money on something that isn't going to give me the pro look I would like to start getting into.

I am mostly torn with the HD or SD, but really like some of the Cannon SD cams over the one Sony cam I listed.. The Sony is cheap in price and is HD. The Canon's cost more, but have better zoom lenses, better features over all, XLR inputs, and more pro features but is only SD. Can someone please help me?? I am on a budget, but will be willing to wait and spend a few extra hundred on a camera if it will be more worth it.... The GL2 has really caught my eye... Is it a good entry level cam?

New, and need some help!

[thecoalman]

The GL2 has really caught my eye... Is it a good entry level cam?

I have one and don't have any complaints. It works and works well. Here's a low light sample:



More here: https://forum.videohelp.com/topic242782.html

Some video in similar circumstances, 10 second clip 36MB DV-AVI no audio: http://www.nepadigital.com/reencode/avidv.avi

[Richard_G]

Sony VX2100 or PD170 if you need the XLR inputs. As has been pointed out in another thread, nobody makes an HD camcorder that uses tapes. Personally, I would stick with decent quality 3 CCD SD in DV format rather than go for HD.

[vcdlover]

If you're looking for a PRO grade camcorder, please take a look at these Sony XDCAM, Sony HVR-Z1, Canon XL H1, Canon XL2 and Panasonic DVX100B. For software, Vegas 8 Pro and Premiere Pro. I have an XL2 and GL2 and happy with both of them. I use Vegas 7 and am looking for upgrading to Vegas 8 Pro in a short future. There are more that I didn't mention, but at least give you an idea to start with.

vcdlover

[RockWood610]

Wow. Thanks very much guys.

I to use Sony Vegas 7, just got 8 and I am testing it out. I wanted to get an XL2, but it is just way out of my price range right now. For the XLR inputs, I plan on buying the adaptor that hooks on to the GL2 if I get one, witch based on thecoalman's posts, it looks good enough for what I wanna start getting into.

I am into audio stuff pretty well, so combining my studio gear I already have with the GL2, I think I can come up with some really good productions.

Thanks for the replies guys! I think the GL2 is what I will aim for.

thecoalman, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like to get to know a little more about the GL2 before I buy one. Would if be alright if I tossed a few questions here and there in a PM from time to time as I get closer to buying one?

[dfisher052]

I"m also a GL2 user and VERY satisfied. I shoot video for Public Access TV & the footage always looks great. I capture in mpeg 2 and edit with the Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD. Not a lot of bells & whistles, but it does provide good video at a reasonable cost & not a lot of effort. When I do a video production I really don't want to spend for ever to get a finished product. But I do want it to look professional, and it does. That's good enough for me.

[thecoalman]

Would if be alright if I tossed a few questions here and there in a PM from time to time as I get closer to buying one?

Post them here I'll respond if I read them, don't PM me about it. I'm not the only one with information.

[RockWood610]

Would if be alright if I tossed a few questions here and there in a PM from time to time as I get closer to buying one?

Post them here I'll respond if I read them, don't PM me about it. I'm not the only one with information.

Hahaha. Ok. Good point. I just get really into this stuff when I am asking questions and getting ready for a purchase.

What is the GL2's 30fps feature like? Does it record a really good cinamatic look? And is it true 16:9 format, or does it just stretch the video to fit the 16:9 aspect ratio?

Oh, and I just realised you posted an AVI sample from the GL2... WOW. I was in a metal band for 5 years, so after recording our shows with a simple consumer cam that wasn't good with low light and then seeing your sample, WOW. I am totaly stoked about this now... hahaha

Are there any other samples posted anywhere with different lighting or the 30fps settings?

[edDV]

The GL2 is great. I find the XL2 too bulky for handheld use.

For SD the Sony PD170 is the standard of comparison and used ones are showing up below $2000. The Sony VX-2100 is similar but lacks XLR (Google Beachtek for XLR add-on)



For HDV the equivalent is the HVR-Z1U


For film style 24fps progressive check out the Panasonic AG-DVX100B.
Read about it here http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/

Further up the Canon XH-A1 would be my dream HDV choice but then the Panasonic DVCProHD AG-HVX200 is just a bit more

[thecoalman]

What is the GL2's 30fps feature like?

To tell you the truth I have only tried it briefly. Basically though your getting non-interlaced footage. I'd imagine it would be superb for web only video.

And is it true 16:9 format, or does it just stretch the video to fit the 16:9 aspect ratio?

Are you referring to whwther the entire censor is used? I believe you lose effective resolution on the Canon in 16:9 mode but all the clips and screencaps I posted are 16:9. All DV cams record 16:9 @ 720x480(576 for pal) so they will all be stretched if you're referring to the file format.

[RockWood610]

edDV, Thanks for the posts. I have seen many of these cams, but stopped research on a couple of them when I saw price tags... I'd rather buy something like this new with a factory warrenty. Not interested in hucking 2 grand to someone who may screw me over with a bad product.

thecoalman, The 16:9 question I was asking about was basicaly because I have a new 16:9 wide screen HD tv. Although I know I won't get HD signal, I was wondering if it would be worth shooting in 16:9 or if I would loose picture quality. When looking at Canon's product tour videoof the GL2 on thier USA Canon website, and a couple acrobat file type brouchures, it seemed to have said you can shoot in either true 16:9, OR have it just temporarly streched to fit a widescreen for play back so you don't have to shoot in the 16:9 format.

I think it also said that the "30fps" was the true 16:9 shooting feature for the cinamtic look... this is where I am some what confused...

[thecoalman]

It's no different than a 16:9 DVD if that is what you asking. A "true" 16:9 video fills out the entire frame like this (note that this was not taken with the GL2 but a cheap Sony D8 .):



Note the people look tall and skinny. When you author/encode/transfer it's flagged as 16:9, When authored and played back on 4:3 TV the DVD player will see this flag and add black bars top and bottom. Some software video players will read this flag too, PowerDVD for example will play a DV-AVI flagged as 16:9 back at the correct aspect.



If you have a wide screen TV it will simply fill out the entire TV.

OR have it just temporarly streched to fit a widescreen for play back so you don't have to shoot in the 16:9 format

You don't want to do that, you're simply shooting a 4:3 video and cropping it. I do all my video in WS, no reason not too as 4:3 TV's will be a thing of the past shortly.

I think it also said that the "30fps" was the true 16:9 shooting feature for the cinamtic look... this is where I am some what confused...

The FPS has nothing to do with the aspect or being WS, when you say "cinematic look" you're going for look that makes it appear to be shot on film. The 24fps has alot to do with it so the 30FPS is not going to help much in that regard , some of those cams even have filters specifically made to give the color the look of film... Iterlaced video has a very smooth look to it, film does not. Film has a lower frame rate, the interlacing on video helps make things look much smoother as well.

[RockWood610]

Wow. Again, thanks for the reply.

I planned on shooting in 16:9 anyways. The thing that confuses me about a widescreen DVD iss, when I watch one on my new 42" wide LCD Sony Bravia, the black bars are still on the screen.

Example; I was watching a widescreen version of the original Die Hard movie from Fox, and it still had black bars on the screen. It didn't fill the screen all the way. The only way I could get it to fill the screen was if I use the tvs zoom or stretch feature, witch made it look really bad.

I was wondering about what the feature for the cinematic look would be, because a few friends of mine and I that have some training in film are interested in shooting some small movie type projects. I didn't know if the GL2 could produce a decent cinematic look... one that wouldn't take much cleaning up in post with editing software, for I am not very advanced in that yet.

[jagabo]

Die hard was shot at 2.2:1. Since that's wider than 16:9 (1.78:1) it will continue to have letterbox bars on a 16:9 TV.

[stiltman]

I would recommend the Panasonic AG-HVX200 for a really good entry Pro cam.

Panasonic website
http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&store...odel=AG-HVX200

Brochure (pdf)
ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/Drivers/PBTS/brochures/B_AG-HVX200.pdf

[edDV]

The GL2 is a good DV cam but you should probably consider HDV format (Sony HVR-HD1000U @ $1600 or Canon HV-20 @~$800) as an alternate.

It comes down to the HD vs. SD question for the projects you mentioned.

The Canon HV-20 is an amazing value and has most needed pro features. It will even shoot true 24p (progressive) in 1440x1080 HDV 24f mode. It can also shoot in DV (wide or 4:3) or downscale HDV to DV for transfer to the computer. That way you can edit as DV but retain a high def camera master. Or you can edit a HD edit master and downscale the result to DVD.

XLR audio can be adapted by using balanced to unbalanced impedance matching transformers like the Shure A96F.
http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/Accessories/us_pro_A96F_content



Or better get the HV-20 + Beachtek DXA-2s XLR adapter.
http://beachtek.com/dxa2s.html

[RockWood610]

I already looked at the 1000U from Sony, and its nothing great really. I keep hearing it is a consumer cam put into a pro body and doesn't have the quality as a 3CCD cam with the 1 CMOS chip.

I also considered the Canon HV-20, but I don't feel it has all the features I would like to explore. Although it is a good price, its not as high end in my opinion as I would like it to be. But thanks for the suggestions... just the idea that everyone is taking time to reply to this is awesome.

I am not anywhere near a pro user right now, and I am hoping the GL2 will help shape my shooting/editing a little better. I am a semi pro audio guy, (I have a decked out PC with audio interface, studio monitors, condesor mics, ect) and I know my way around high end Sony Vegas Pro for basic editing with video (Acid Pro 6 for audio). I am still learning things as I go along, and right now for $1,900.00 to get me started, I have my heart set on the Canon GL2. I can always upgrade to HD later when I have learned the basics and HD has completly taken over.

Don't get me wrong, I am embracing the HD technology very much so. I am a WWE wreslting fan, and watching that in HD this past Monday was simply amazing. But I need to learn the basics before jumping into that kind of high end technology with both feet. And with the Canon GL2, I can get the Canon MA-300 dual channel XLR attachment and use my pro mics from Shure to record certain shots.

I wanna learn the basics of shooting and work my way up, and for the quality/price, the GL2 seems to be a great start.

Thanks again for the replies. Again, I am new and learning the process, so any more suggestions and tips are welcome...