Why AVI's?

[Beauford-1]

From personal experience with AVI's and from what I've read on this group regarding problems with AVI's, why do people continue to make them in this format. I'm having the same problem as many others when trying to encode them - says it is not a valid format or is corrupt, but it plays fine in WMP. I tried using TMPGEnc-2.02.31.119 and it does recognize it, but soon as I click on the start button it freezes. I have tried it on two machines (an Intel 700 and a 366) both with 256 mb RAM. These should run it no problem. Any one else have this problem and know how to fix it.

[Thurbs]

You are more then likely dealing with a Divx.

You will need to install divx codec found at www.divx.com if this is the case.

[kinneera]

FYI - The extension AVI just describes a general standardized structure for storing video and audio data (Audio-video interleave). The video and audio data itself can be encoded/compressed in any number of ways using any number of codecs. It can even be totally raw data, the most "pure" video data you can store on a computer, in which case it would be totally superior to any other format at the expense of colossal amounts of disk space.

[dumwaldo]

when i first became interested in VCD's i misunderstood the use of DivX and i think you are too. i even went to sar as to start threads on this forum saying DivX should be used to compress video to send over the internet and it should be the downloaders responsibility to re-encode it themself. well that was COMPLETELY WRONG.

DivX is designed to use on the computer and be viewed on the computer. the overall architecture of the codec relies heavily on the decoding power of computer it is running on. basically the information just isnt there but if you have a fast enough computer it is able to take the information that is there and render a greater overall image.

if you are downloading screeners in avi then converting them to VCD then you are not using either format properly. your DivX was never intended to be used to make VCD's and VCD was never intended to be created out of DivX files. DivX is compatible with your computer monitor, TV out on the video card or a scan converter, if you are not using one of those methods then stop downloading DivX. if you wish to make VCD's then download VCD images or mpg's. its just that simple!

now before people start posting saying "i dont have connections, i cant get the VCD's" i will tell you that is a load of crap. you dont have to be some kind of elite scene member to get VCD's. look at www.slyck.com for help getting started. newsgroups and IRC are both open to the public, tons of file sharing apps exist, FXP boards are not difficult to find or get involved in, and when all else fails you could even try talking to people in chat rooms and making friends so you do have "connections".

chris rock once said "i can drive my car with my feet, but its not a good idea. just because you CAN do it doesnt mean you should do it" so if you want VCD's then stop stroking yourself with DivX files with half the bitrate you need to create a VCD.

peace out,
dumwaldo

[Beauford-1]

Thanks for the info, but my question was one of standards, and DivX and AVI's in general seem to be all over the scale - this codec works for this one and another codec for another one, etc. etc. I don't know how many times I have DL'd an AVI to find I can't play it - no matter what codec I have installed. How about one codec fits all. From a "dummies" perspective, all I want to do is to doubleclick on WMP and have the damn things play.

As for downloading mpegs to create VCD's - not as easy as it sounds. I have searched and searched with no luck (I don't use newsgroups - to many incomplete files). IRC, if your willing to wait in a cue of 20 you might just get one, but most of the ones I have seen are AVI's. Kazaa and the like are just becoming to busy - the last download I tried came in at a whopping 0.87.

I'll keep plugging away, but in the long run it is probably better to just buy the movie.

[danib666]

personnally i think you people should stop bitching and learn how to use tmpegenc properly!!!!!!!!!
i encode from divx using tmpegenc and come out with as good as or better quality vcd's than the pre-made ones released on the internet!
next step is learning svcd's
don't knock it till you know how to use it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dumwaldo]

Thanks for the info, but my question was one of standards, and DivX and AVI's in general seem to be all over the scale - this codec works for this one and another codec for another one, etc. etc. I don't know how many times I have DL'd an AVI to find I can't play it - no matter what codec I have installed. How about one codec fits all. From a "dummies" perspective, all I want to do is to doubleclick on WMP and have the damn things play.

there are only 2 codecs you should need but i will mention a third one anyway.

first and most important codec is DivX 3.11 alpha. the second codec to install would be the SMR patch. with those 2 codecs installed you should be able to play just about anything. the third codec is one i hesitantly suggest and that is the most recent version of the DivX 4 codec.

DivX 3.11 Alpha is the standard used by the groups that make up "the scene". whenever you download a DivX video that was provided by a release group it will be using the DivX 3.11 Alpha codec.

the SMR patch is used by the re-encoding group shadowrealm. this is not a "scene" group. they re-encode VCD's released by the VCD groups. they have one of the best systems of distribution and their copies are generally the smallest file size around. for those reasons their re-encodes are very easy to get and very popular or filesharing apps.

DivX 4 is the "legal" version of the DivX codec, rather i should say it is the bug filled non working counterpart to the real DivX codec. none of the formal release groups use DivX 4 and in the higher echelons of "the scene" if a release group does use DivX 4 their release is removed from other groups distribution circles. this is known as *nuking*. many people new to encoding will use the DivX 4 codec however so you may come ascross a need for it at some time. just remember DivX 4 is NOT DivX, it cant even decode DivX audio. if you must install this codec then please read during the install and make sure you DO NOT allow this codec to decode DivX 3.11 Alpha content or i can guarantee you a problem in the future.

ok so i know you are now thinking, but i have those codecs installed and i still have a bunch of files that wont play. i can explain that. the problem is that you are downloading from peer to peer programs and your "suppliers" dont use care in controlling what they supply. incomplete avi files dont play with WMP. i would be willing to bet a dollar against a dime that is whats happening to you. you download a complete file from User1462 so you think you did everything correct but the problem is that User1462 did not download a complete copy in the first place but his peer to peer program shares downloaded files and he hasnt checked the file to see if it is complete.

the problem is not in the AVI format or the variety of codecs used. the problem is with the providers of said AVI files. i am not completely positive about this but i am pretty sure that once you manually install those 3 codecs any other codec you could possible ever need WMP can auto download from M$. those three however are not recognized by M$ as legal codecs and are not offered through M$'s download center.

As for downloading mpegs to create VCD's - not as easy as it sounds. I have searched and searched with no luck (I don't use newsgroups - to many incomplete files). IRC, if your willing to wait in a cue of 20 you might just get one, but most of the ones I have seen are AVI's. Kazaa and the like are just becoming to busy - the last download I tried came in at a whopping 0.87.

I'll keep plugging away, but in the long run it is probably better to just buy the movie.

first about IRC...
it can be difficult to get stuff, try these tips.

#1 avoid the big networks like dalnet, efnet and undernet. get started with a smaller network. you will find the people are more personable and willing to help someone that doesnt fully understand the ins and out of IRC.

#2 avoid the rooms with more than 100 people. they move very quickly and are difficult to understand if you are trying to learn. there is also alot of competition getting onto the fservs. most serious irc downloaders use a script to point and click their way through fservs rather than type commands so chances are if an ad comes up with a free slot one of them will get to it before you. smaller rooms are more laid back and it is not such a rush to get to a trigger the instant it opens up.

#3 read the server stats, this can tell you alot. in the announce there will be some basic information about the server. this is always a customizable feature to disply what the paticular server wants to. some servers give you a great deal of info while others give you verry little info. regardless this info can be used to guage the overall reliability and speed of the server.

#4 dont be intimidated by what appear to be long queues if the server is serving large files. in many cases people will queue up on a server then decide they dont want to wait anymore or their connection on IRC will time out. they leave but the server still has the queue. you can get the queuelisting from inside a server then look at the naes and compare to whats in the room. you might discover that a queue of 20 names is in fact only 2 other active users in the room.

#5 talking to people in the rooms ALWAYS helps. you can learn things from others and if the operator of a server likes you they can start your send whenever they want and often offer advantages over waiting in the queue. if you are interested in speaking to other users IRC offers the richest personal experience and can often lead to "other means" of downloading, but you have to talk to people to get those benefits.


now about usenet...
try these tips and it might help you out alot
#1 there is a fairly new trend on usenet. it is called par files. since most people that use their ISP supplied news server dont get posts complete someone created a program that can generate generic fills for a rar archive. what you see now is a post of a rar archive accompanied by a post of a par archive. the files in the par archive can be used to replace ANY part in the rar archive. for instance if a rar archive has 50 parts and there are also 7 par files posted then you can be missing any 7 files from the rar archive. by using a very simple utility program you can create the missing rar archive parts with the par files. basically if you are missing r15 and another guy is missing r27 and a third guy is missing r02 only one par file needs to be posted and you can all use it.

#2 browsing newsgroups can be a bit overwhelming. cross posting and the shere volume of what is available can make it seem like wading through an ocean. a good newsreader can help sort things out a great deal. look at the different ones available and find what suits your needs best. i think newsbin pro offers the best features if you are just interested in downloading binaries but it lacking in features that help read the groups and not very good for posting. (incidentally posting to usenet is not something beginers should do)

#3 if you like what you see when you look at the newsgroups but have alot of incomplete files or dont have the time to deal with short retention times you could do what millions of others do every day. subscribe to a premium news server for a monthly fee. this can get costly if it is your only source as most premium service averages about $2 per gig for downloading but if used just for filling whats incomplete from yout ISP news server the monthly limitations are usually more than sufficient. you can find some links for Commercial Usenet Providers at http://binnewz.net/ but do not sign up with anyone for more than one month at a time. good commercial servers can go bad overnight and you dont want to be locked in if that happens. also be sure to read how the service works. i use easynews for my fill needs. i always download from their webpage because downloading the headers with a news reader counts towards my download limit. how did i find that out? i downloaded the headers to a large group and then later looked at the webpage and saw about 1 gig used on my account from the NNTP server. i didn't read, instead i learned the hard way. dont be like me.

if you have actually read this far then you should now have a really good idea how to stop using kazaa and improve your sources. i really think if you start getting from better places you will have fewer problems. i am not trying to bash filesharing at all but in the case of video all the filesharing networks are plauged with problems. take a look at the site i offered in my earlier post and you will find guides on several file sharing programs. you will also find these programs touted as the best way to aquire MP3 files but then if you look at the video related topics you will see the filesharing apps just fall off the charts to other more efficient ways to get movies.

anyway i hope this info can be of help to you and/or others.

peace out,
dumwaldo

[dumwaldo]

personnally i think you people should stop bitching and learn how to use tmpegenc properly!!!!!!!!!
i encode from divx using tmpegenc and come out with as good as or better quality vcd's than the pre-made ones released on the internet!
next step is learning svcd's
don't knock it till you know how to use it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hey thanks for the advice... oh wait you didnt offer any actual advice.

thanks for posting for the sake of seeing your name on the screen.... oooohhhhh pretty.... ooooohhhhh name mine..... ooooohhhh touch screeen

thanks for showing exactly why people shouldnt download movies from kaza

[danib666]

i didn't post a guide on how to do these conversions cos the guides are already on this site, thats all i've ever used. the movies i've encoded have all come from the net (divx) and i've never had a problem following these guides.
don't bother getting ready made vcd mpegs as these are most often cams, to get the best quality encode your own from divx files using the guides on this site
oh and for news groups they are without a doubt the best place for getting any media, just don't bother going thru the groups searching yourself. use this site for postings lists www.binnewz.com most things are posted over a few days so they my not be complete when you first see them. just be patient.
better?

[Beauford-1]

Dumwaldo:

WoW. My thesis wasn't that long - Thanks. Anyway, just a question or two more if you don't mind.

I have both DivX 3.11 Alpha and DivX 4 (which was set not to play DivX 3) but some AVI's still do not play. Then by some fluke I got something from Krystal Studios and installed it - now some of the videos I couldn't play before work, and some that I could play before don't play now. So this brings me back to my question of standards. Obviously there is something different about these versions of DivX that would do this.

As for incomplete files, I don't think this is the case. I have a program which I'm sure you've heard of - Virtual Dub, and it seems to play incomplete AVI's up to the point of the missing part, but with some of the AVI's I've downloaded it just plain says it's not an AVI file.

One interesting footnote however, I got a weird message from VirtualDub on one of the files regarding ASF. It says that Microsoft holds the patent and that VD doesn't support them. So although it had an AVI extension, VD was seeing it as an ASF file.

One more question. Where do I get the SMR patch. I will look on this site, but incase I don't find it.

Thanks again for the info.

danib666: Please.

[dumwaldo]

danib666
sorry for attacking you, it must have been before my first bong hits of the day. anyway since i guess you dont realize this... the DivX screeners are nothing more than re-encodes of original VCD's. if you direct your browser to www.vcdquality.com you will discover that these movies are always released as VCD first. to assert that taking a re-encoded DivX copy and then re-encoding yet again can create better quality is just absurd.

yes binnewz is a great site (you will find my name on their forum as well) however i would like to point out that it is not always 100% reliable to get stuff in time if you are not using a premium news server.



Beauford-1
you have the proper codecs and i am pretty sure the smr patch is included in the krystal codec pack. the smr codec is indeed available on this site on the tools page in the codecs section if you wish to install it alone.

getting back to unsupported avi files there is a very informative thread you should read here... http://www.vcdhelp.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=76073&highlight=

the asf format is viewed by most as lesser quality than DivX so i think this new trend is to encode asf files then just rename them to avi to make them more attractive to downloaders. these are infact asf files and could be damaged or again incomplete.

i am not really positive about this because this seems to be a new occurance with renamed asf files but i think it is the navi codec (smr patch) that allows renamed asf files to play with the avi extension and that is why they didnt play before you installed krystal and did play after. again these are things you will not have to address if you are downloading from usenet. if someoen does post something like this you can be sure there will be follow up posts complaining, warning or just bitching to let others know.

peace out,
dumwaldo

[Beauford-1]

Thanks again for all the info. I might just have to invest in a premium service as my ISP's is brutal. I went to alt.binaries.vcd and out of 3500 posts (and I'm sure this is on the low end of what should be there) there wasn't one complete file, and binary retention is at most 12 hours. Not going to get much there.

[Beauford-1]

Thanks again for all the info. I might just have to invest in a premium service as my ISP's is brutal. I went to alt.binaries.vcd and out of 3500 posts (and I'm sure this is on the low end of what should be there) there wasn't one complete file, and binary retention is at most 12 hours. Not going to get much there.

[danib666]

hahaha dumwaldo, that could've been the reason why i was pretty blunt with my reply too!!

the divx files i use are dvd rips, not ones that have come from vcd's. i used to encode my own vcd's from the dvd-divx files to get the best quality possible. using the guides from on here and a few few additional tweaks of my own to get it that bit nicer

but since seeing the quality of the lord of the rings dvd2svcd screener i'm thinking that maybe svcd's are the way to go. just need to work out how the hell to unlock the bitrate in tmpegencs svcd settings!

i do use www.vcdquality.com for checking the premade svcd's quality, but use www.isonews.com for the release dates of me dvddivx files, maybe vite and dominion will get back on it again soon!

[danib666]

hahaha dumwaldo, that could've been the reason why i was pretty blunt with my reply too!!

the divx files i use are dvd rips, not ones that have come from vcd's. i used to encode my own vcd's from the dvd-divx files to get the best quality possible. using the guides from on here and a few few additional tweaks of my own to get it that bit nicer

but since seeing the quality of the lord of the rings dvd2svcd screener i'm thinking that maybe svcd's are the way to go. just need to work out how the hell to unlock the bitrate in tmpegencs svcd settings!

i do use www.vcdquality.com for checking the premade svcd's quality, but use www.isonews.com for the release dates of me dvddivx files, maybe vite and dominion will get back on it again soon!