Need info on gold "long-life" DVDs

[Djinn252]

I'm planning on ordering a pack of 25 "super longevity" gold DVDs for select home movie archival. My questions:

1) When it comes to super-longevity DVDs, is one brand better than another?

2) Should I be worried about counterfeits?

3) Can anyone recommend a reliable, reasonably-priced media vendor? I'm in the U.S., and would prefer not to pay international shipping rates.

Note that I only want to buy about 25 DVDs; if a vendor only sells 100-pack spindles, that's unfortunately of no use.

Many thanks for any info.

[redwudz]

Take a look here for media info: http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/advancedconcepts.htm

Most 'gold' discs seem to use Phthalocyanine dyes. The site above has some info on it. You may not find any reliable information about the 'archival' quality of those discs much beyond the manufacturer's hype.

Some of the best quality DVD-5 discs presently are Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim. TY is hard to find in small quantities, but Verbatim should be available that way.

For DVD media vendors, try http://www.rima.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv, http://www.supermediastore.com/ and http://meritline.stores.yahoo.net/ , to mention a few.

[piano632]

I think it matters more how well the whole disc is made, not just if it has a gold reflective layer. What makes gold a good choice is that it doesn't break down chemically when exposed to air, but if a disc is well-made it should be sealed air-tight and it shouldn't matter if it's gold or silver. Silver has the advantage that it reflects better than gold.

Verbatim makes UltraLife DVD-R which have both gold and silver layers. Gold on the label side where air is more likely to seep in, and silver on the data side for better reflectivity. They also have a scratch-resistant coating. Seems to be only sold in 50-count spindles.

Maxell Broadcast Quality DVD-R don't use gold, but they are considered some of best out there. They also have a scratch-resistant coating. Sold in 3-packs in full-size DVD cases.
http://www.tapeonline.com/DVD-R/Maxell_DVD-R_47_8X_Broadcast_Quality.aspx

[jman98]

MAM-A sells gold DVDs in a 25 pack
http://www.mam-a-store.com/mam4348125.html
If I had to buy gold DVDs for long term storage, these are what I would buy. They aren't cheap though. A 25 pack will cost you $80.

You have very few choices. I honestly don't know of anyone other than MAM-A that even makes gold DVDs. If you buy from MAM-A directly, you don't have to worry about counterfeits.

Phthalocyanine dye is considered by many to be the best dye there is and it what MAM-A uses. Note that Taiyo Yuden does NOT use this dye and in fact uses a variety of cyanine dye. Cyanine dyes typically are considered to have the shortest lifespan of all dyes in use and Taiyo Yuden has had to put metal additives in it to make it better. Whether Taiyo Yuden's additives will really make the dye last longer or not is something nobody seems to know. If I had to bet on lifespan, I'd guess phthalocyanine would last the longest, followed by AZO (used by Verbatim), followed by cyanine (used by Taiyo Yuden).

[robertazimmerman]

My 2 cents.....

I used to use gold Mitsui discs exclusively as result of having read great reviews and having flawless experience with their media. When the media started showing up as MAM-A, I started having problems with their gold CD-Rs. I was unable to play many of them in my car stereo due to skipping issues, which was never a problem with the Mitsui brand. My local distributor told me that he was having many more returns and complaints with MAM-A media than he ever did with Mitsui. I was told that the company was bought by an Italian concern - not sure if that's true. So in the last 18 months, I have bought T-Y CD-Rs and DVD-Rs and Verbatim DVD+R DLs exclusively and have not had a single problem.

If the media won't play properly now, I don't really care how it will play in 100 years.

Roberta

[SCDVD]

My 2 cents.....

I used to use gold Mitsui discs exclusively as result of having read great reviews and having flawless experience with their media. When the media started showing up as MAM-A, I started having problems with their gold CD-Rs. I was unable to play many of them in my car stereo due to skipping issues, which was never a problem with the Mitsui brand. My local distributor told me that he was having many more returns and complaints with MAM-A media than he ever did with Mitsui. I was told that the company was bought by an Italian concern - not sure if that's true. So in the last 18 months, I have bought T-Y CD-Rs and DVD-Rs and Verbatim DVD+R DLs exclusively and have not had a single problem.

If the media won't play properly now, I don't really care how it will play in 100 years.

Roberta

Mitsui is not in the media business anymore and hasn't been for some time. MAM-A is a slock-house that is trying to live off the legacy of the Mitsui brand. Stay away from it.

[Seeker47]

Some of the best quality DVD-5 discs presently are Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim. TY is hard to find in small quantities, but Verbatim should be available that way..

I have also wondered about the supposedly more scratch or damage resistant (so-claimed) archival disks. Verbatim might make one -- can't recall. None that I've seen are MIJ. As far as TY goes, it would be great if they made any like this, but so far I've only seen their "watershield" label ones mentioned. I'm much less concerned about smeared writing on the top side than survivability on the burn side.

[piano632]

I have also wondered about the supposedly more scratch or damage resistant (so-claimed) archival disks. Verbatim might make one -- can't recall. None that I've seen are MIJ.

The Maxell Broadcast Quality ones are MIJ with anti-scratch coating similar to Verbatim's Videogard.

[Djinn252]

Many many thanks all for the useful information - especially regarding MAM-A. Like I said, for the vast majority of my data, ordinary media is just fine. I tend to stick with TDK because it's got a good reputation in general, and I can't remember the last time one of them has failed me.

On the other hand, for a few items - such as home videos - I'd like to be confident that as long as I store the disks properly, they'll be readable in another two or three decades. Obviously no one can personally testify to the longevity of these disks.

redwudz & piano632: I was under the impression that Verbatim and Maxell didn't actually manufacture media. Rather, they purchase in bulk, and stamp their own label on it. Is this not the case?

[jman98]

For what it's worth, the MAM-A gold CD-R discs, which I rarely use, have worked perfectly for me in a variety of players, including cars.

If I was scared away from the various posts here from trying the MAM-A gold DVD discs, I'd buy Verbatim. Verbatim makes a DVD disc that is supposed to be highly scratch resistant, although you must pay extra for it. I believe that Verbatim's dye is likely to last longer than Taiyo Yuden's, although if you store the discs properly, I would think that you could probably get 20 years or maybe more out of a Taiyo Yuden disc.

[redwudz]

AFAIK, both Maxwell and Verbatim make their own discs. Verbatim reportedly outsources some media types for manufacture. However, other companies may use their media and rebrand it with their own name. But the media ID code will tell you who manufactured it.

See: http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm There are some listings there of the manufacturers and the media ID codes.

[piano632]

Maxell's Broadcast Quality discs are made by Maxell themselves in Japan with MXL RG03 media code. Other Maxell discs are mostly made by Ritek these days.

TDK discs haven't been good for years now. They are mostly CMC junk now. TDK still makes their "Armor Plated" DVD-R now labeled as "medical grade". These would probably be made by TDK themselves, if you want to pay the steep price of over $4 per DVD.
http://www.encoredataproducts.com/TDK-Medical-Grade-DVD-R-4.7GB-8x-Super-Hard-Coat-Sil...Box-p-695.html

[Djinn252]

... TDK discs haven't been good for years now. They are mostly CMC junk now. TDK still makes their "Armor Plated" DVD-R now labeled as "medical grade". These would probably be made by TDK themselves, if you want to pay the steep price of over $4 per DVD....

That sucks... I liked TDK because of the reputed reliablity, plus the major convenience of being able to buy it locally at Circuit City. I'll have to download DVD Identifier and check out a few of my disks.

I've never experienced any problems, but then I never burn at speeds above 8x either (and for important stuff, I stick to 4x).

[Seeker47]

I have also wondered about the supposedly more scratch or damage resistant (so-claimed) archival disks. Verbatim might make one -- can't recall. None that I've seen are MIJ.

The Maxell Broadcast Quality ones are MIJ with anti-scratch coating similar to Verbatim's Videogard.

Thanks for the info. Are these sold in stores, or mainly online ? I believe I have seen the Videoguard ones at Best Buy.

[piano632]

Yes, Best Buy sells the Verbatim VideoGard discs (these are the regular silver discs, not the gold/silver UltraLife discs however).

The Maxell Broadcast Quality discs are intended for professional use so I doubt you'd find them in any store. You can order them on-line from a few different places such as:
http://www.tapeonline.com/DVD-R/Maxell_DVD-R_47_8X_Broadcast_Quality.aspx

[Djinn252]

Yep... My TDKs are CMC.

The local Circuit City sells Memorex, HP, Sony, NexxTech, and TDK. Memorex, HP, and TDK all use CMC media. NexxTech uses "UME Disc" and "Adv Media Ltd" which sounds dubious. That just leaves Sony, which either uses their own media, or buys from Taiyo Yuden. Am I right in thinking that Sony's the best bet undre the circumstances?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:CMC MAG-M01-000]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD+R] - [DVD+R]
Manufacturer Name : [CMC Magnetics Corp.]
Manufacturer ID : [CMC MAG]
Media Type ID : [M01]
Product Revision : [Not Specified]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,295,104 Sectors = 4.70 GB (4.38 GiB)]
Recording Speeds : [1x-2.4x , 4x , 6x-8x , 6x-16x]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier V5.0.1 - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Seeker47]

That just leaves Sony, which either uses their own media, or buys from Taiyo Yuden. Am I right in thinking that Sony's the best bet undre the circumstances?

Unless someone has better, more current info, I think what you said about the source on Sony media is strictly past tense. At one time, for awhile, there were Fujis that were actually TY. Maxell and Sony have also had MIJ media (though I don't know for sure whether or not it was from TY), but I think this hasn't been the case for some time . . . with the exception of what we're hearing about the "broadcast quality" archival Maxells, in this thread. If you'd rather get your media somewhere locally, as opposed to ordering it online, I'd say look for a Best Buy, which does carry Verbatim. That is probably your best local option.

[lordsmurf]

Sony has not used TY in about a year now, but their discs are manufactured by TY (Japan) or Daxon (Taiwan or Malaysia) to Sony's specs, and with the Sony ID. It's not a re-brand, it's an outsource. The Malaysian media is crap, the Taiwan is quite good, the Japanese is excellent.

_________________

There are three key terms to remember here:

MANUFACTURER - Company that "creates" their own media. They can either use their own facilities, or pay somebody else. "Somebody else" may be nothing more than real estate (the manufacturer is on site at another facility), or an outsource. Example: MITSUBISHI

OUTSOURCE - Company A pays another Company B (a manufacturer with their own facilities) to make media, but with the Company A specifications (media ID, dyes, material, equipment, etc). An outsourced discs is still very much manufactured by Company A, it is not considered a Company B product (a fairly recent online confusion and myth). Example: SONY outsources to DAXON. That is still a Sony disc, not a Daxon disc.

RE-BRANDER - A company buys media from a manufacturer and has their brand markings put on it. It is sold under the brand in stores. Example: IMATION re-brands RITEK and CMC. Imation does not make media in any capacity.

_________________

Most good manufactured media is sold under the flagship brands of the same corporation that owns the manufacturer. Example: Mitsubishi owns the Verbatim brand.

Mid-grade media is sold under re-brands, as well as it's own half-known name brands. Example: RITEK has RIDATA, but it's also sold under everything from MAXELL to OFFICE DEPOT brands.

Garbage media is never sold under it's own brand, it's bulked out to any no-name buyer. Example: Nexxtech buys UMEDISC crap, which has no known brand associated with the manufacturer.

Understanding media gets more complicated, but it's not impossible. The problem is a lot of people online give out really bad information, so be careful when reading user comments in reviews and forums.

[Djinn252]

Jeez... And obviously the worst part is that you can't identify the media until you've purchased and opened the package.

I guess Verbatim is my best option for general-usage under the circumstances.

[lordsmurf]

You can keep Sony on your list, just read the UPC area and avoid Malaysian discs. Only grab Japan (uncommon) or Taiwan discs. Those are on sale at Best Buy, this week, by the way. I picked up two for myself.

I buy Verbatim online, mostly. Office Max sometimes has local sales, but not often.

[SCDVD]

Here's the rub on Taiyo Yuden. First of all, it certainly is good media. Very few would question that. However, Taiyo Yuden has zero marketing savvy in their media products division and that isn't likely to change. The media division of Taiyo Yuden accounts for only about three percent of the overall company revenue. The media division's mission is to be quiet and respectful amid the big guns that make 97% of the company's revenue. The media division has no motivation to be a hero or do anything to attract attention. This traditional Japanese company mentality is very difficult to understand for those outside Japan. It's best illustrated with a translated Japanese expression: "The nail that sticks its head up needs to be put back in place with a hammer." Don't look for any changes within Taiyo Yuden regarding this. It's not going to happen.

[Djinn252]

Not to sound too old, but why was this never a problem with CDs or floppy disks? With CDs, it was usually a safe bet that if you bought a recognized brand, you'd get decent media. With floppy disks, the brand was of virtually no importance whatsoever.

[Seeker47]

Yes, Best Buy sells the Verbatim VideoGard discs (these are the regular silver discs, not the gold/silver UltraLife discs however).

The Maxell Broadcast Quality discs are intended for professional use so I doubt you'd find them in any store. You can order them on-line from a few different places such as:
http://www.tapeonline.com/DVD-R/Maxell_DVD-R_47_8X_Broadcast_Quality.aspx

So -- unless my online search missed something -- TY does not make a "scratch-resistant" disc of this type ? Just the "waterproof" no-smear label type ? If so, too bad.

[Marvingj]

If Taiyo Yuden made a scratch-resistant" disc this would be a great X-mas gift? I need to get off on Fantasy Island..

[SCDVD]

If Taiyo Yuden made a scratch-resistant" disc this would be a great X-mas gift? I need to get off on Fantasy Island..

They do but they only sell it in Japan.