HD VMD to Battle Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD

[Teutatis]

HD VMD to Battle Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD

Players and discs using a new high-def format will appear soon--but will consumers make room for yet another combatant in the HD format wars?

Alan Stafford, PC World
Saturday, September 08, 2007 09:00 AM PDT

HD VMD logo

At the Custom Electronic Design & Installation Association (CEDIA) trade show in Denver, a company promoting a new high-definition optical disc format demonstrated set-top players and high-definition movies that cost far less than ones that use the competing Blu-ray Disc or HD DVD formats. The only faux pas: Arriving late to a two-party format war that consumers are already reluctant to support.

Next month, New Medium Enterprises' 1080p set-top players, which use the HD VMD (Versatile Multilayer Disc) format, will go on sale on Amazon.com and in stores such as Radio Shack and Costco for around $150--about half the cost of the least-expensive 1080p HD DVD player, and perhaps a fourth the cost of the least-expensive Blu-ray player. The movies that work in them are similarly inexpensive.

"Expect a small premium over DVD [discs], and a big discount over Blu-ray and HD DVD," says Jim Cardwell, an advisor to the company and former president of Warner Home Video.
Red-Laser Technology

Instead of the blue-laser technology embraced by the Blu-ray and HD DVD camps, the HD VMD format uses the red-laser technology already used to create DVDs, and as a result, keeps the cost of manufacturing discs and drives low, says Eugene Levich, director and chief technology officer of New Medium Enterprises. He said that manufacturing a Blu-ray drive costs ten times as much as manufacturing a DVD or HD VMD drive, because the latter two are essentially the same drive but with different firmware.

HD VMD discs, which hold up to 30GB on a single side, are encoded with a maximum bit rate of 40 megabits per second; that's within halfway between HD DVD's 36 mpbs and Blu-ray's 48 mbps. The format uses MPEG-2 and VC1 video formats to encode at 1080p resolution for the time being, and will possibly move to the H.264 format in the future.

Levich said the video quality is "at least as good" as that of the other formats. Using a projection system, HD VMD reps showed me clips of "We Were Soldiers" and "Apocalypto." The movies looked very good--not as stunning as I expected, but I'd just arrived from the CEDIA show floor, where every television vendor uses phenomenal, highly doctored content to show off their products.

The HD VMD format supports up to 7.1-channel Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, and DTS audio output, though it will not offer the high-bit-rate Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Audio surround-sound codecs.
Multitalented, Inexpensive Players

HD VMD player
The ML622S and the ML775S players each have a single HDMI 1.3 connection and can play HD VMDs, DVDs, CDs, and MP3 CDs, as well as a few other formats. The ML622S costs about $150; the ML775S will cost slightly more. The ML775S adds USB ports and a media-card reader for displaying photos and playing video content from devices such as thumb drives and external hard drives. Both players have Ethernet ports designed for downloading firmware updates, not the interactive features supported by HD DVD and Blu-ray. They come in black, red, gray, and white.

At launch, 20 U.S. movie titles will be available, including many from Mel Gibson's Icon Entertainment International. That's pretty sparse, and the list doesn't include that many hot titles. Of course, Blu-ray and HD DVD didn't start out with many more than that either, and New Medium Enterprises says that much more content from around the world, including many Bollywood titles, will be available.

Cardwell says that if the set-top players sell well, that will convince more major studios to sign on for HD VMD. But without content, buyers may be reticent to buy the set-top players. However, HD VMD players work with other, non-HD VMD content--and because they're inexpensive, buyers may be willing to take a chance.

http://www.pcworld.com/printable/article/id,136977/printable.html

[yoda313]

Wait a minute - I thought Hddvd didn't use blue lasers??? I thought hddvd used the dvd laser? The big deal for hddvd was that it was the same physical process for creation as a dvd interms of the prodcution facilities right?

Now the only good thing is if they can get more movies on them then perhaps this will force more price drops on hddvd and bluray. Otherwise this will sink really fast if they can't get real movies on them.

[jman98]

Wait a minute - I thought Hddvd didn't use blue lasers??? I thought hddvd used the dvd laser? The big deal for hddvd was that it was the same physical process for creation as a dvd interms of the prodcution facilities right?

That's not correct. HD-DVD has always used a blue laser. The DVD laser can't be made to read the small pits in HD-DVD discs, hence the need for another type of laser. The press stated that was possible to use a DVD production line with very minor changes to manufacture HD-DVD discs, but the differences, though slight and (supposedly) not expensive, have never been explained very well as far as I have seen. BluRay uses a production line that is completely different from DVD production lines and requires a larger capital investment to get going.

We'll see what happens, but I think providing a 3rd alternative with no real studio backing in the hopes that maybe cheap players will sell enough to interest Hollywood sounds like a losing proposition to me. You can make a case that most consumers aren't very interested in the 2 HD choices we have already and adding a 3rd one is not likely to be perceived as a good thing. There are strong rumors that WalMart is going to offer a cheap (under $200 US) HD-DVD player after Thanksgiving (late November for non-USA people) and if true, that could kill this format.

[samijubal]

HD-DVD uses a blue laser. The physical format of the disc is close to red laser discs though and doesn't require a completely different production line to stamp out discs like Blu-Ray does.

[yoda313]

Ok I guess I was off a little. I had remembered that hddvd was closer to dvd in some respects. It seems I missed that mark a little. Thanks for clearing it up.

[edDV]

What the HD VMD camp should have done is make a red laser HD/SD DVD recorder + authoring software and sell it bundled for under $250.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Although this is a good idea I doubt it will gain widespread acceptance,sort of like Sanyo's "HD-Burn" or SVCD.
I agree with edDV that this would be perfect for the home recording crowd.

[jman98]

I also agree with edDV. That's an excellent idea. Making it cheap and easy for people at home to use the new format would be a great way to make it take off.

[bendixG15]

How long is this going to go on ???

I'm beginning to think that very few people care about this stuff.
Maybe when U.S. TV goes digital, it'll get a second look from the public.

Quality never could beat cost.
Building a better mousetrap belongs in your Granddad's generation.
Today, its all about......its good enough, screw the extra cost.

[ricoman]

EDTV wrote:
What the HD VMD camp should have done is make a red laser HD/SD DVD recorder + authoring software and sell it bundled for under $250.

I'm with that, buddy. But, I wonder how much blank would media cost?

[RabidDog]

And dont forget the chinese have just finalized their ever so slightly different
player and system. Tho I think that is aimed squarely at the chinese market.
I'm sure it will be so cheap it might be attractive.

[edDV]

It looks like they get the bit rate with multi layer reads from a four layer 24GB disc (6GB/layer). Seems sort of like a 4x optical RAID. HD/BD get their bitrate one layer at a time. While 40 Mb/s is nice, all that is needed to get a decent 1080p result from VC-1 is 8-10 Mb/s. 40 Mb/s would get them 80min @18GB/hr. or you could get 5 hours dropping to 10Mb/s bit rate.
http://www.nmeinc.com/technology_vmdproductionline.aspx

The player uses an off the shelf Sigma Designs EM8622L for video output processing. This makes a simple player if their optical RAID idea works.

I'm wondering now about the write implications but they could write a single layer at a time and still get a good HD picture using VC-1. Even a single layer disc would write ~80 min.

Authoring software only mentions MPeg2 so that puts them in the 20-25up Mb/s bit rates.
http://www.nmeinc.com/technology_authoring.aspx

[festmaster]

What the HD VMD camp should have done is make a red laser HD/SD DVD recorder + authoring software and sell it bundled for under $250.

I would buy something with those specs even if it had zero studio support so I could record OTA high def broadcasts without having to worry about whether my hard drive was getting full. The VCR was initially used primarily as a time-shifting device rather than as something to play rented movies, so there is certainly precedent for that model.

[lenti_75]

it's getting more and more interesting....

[satviewer2000]

Has anyone here not seen x264 re-encoded HDDVD & BluRay material? It looks fantastic even when reduced down to a DVD5 size.

When reduced to a DVD9 size, it's virtually indistinguishable from the original. Who needs the larger disk sizes of these new formats anyways?

[edDV]

Has anyone here not seen x264 re-encoded HDDVD & BluRay material? It looks fantastic even when reduced down to a DVD5 size.

When reduced to a DVD9 size, it's virtually indistinguishable from the original. Who needs the larger disk sizes of these new formats anyways?

What average bitrate are you using? 4-6Mb/s ? I'm sure that will still look good.

HD DVD is using 8-14 Mb/s for VC-1. That is supposed to rival MPeg2 at 20-25 Mb/s.

[Marvingj]

I would like to see it in action.............................

[Conquest10]

When reduced to a DVD9 size, it's virtually indistinguishable from the original. Who needs the larger disk sizes of these new formats anyways?

That's what I've been telling the Blu-Ray fanboys when they start talking about how it has 50gigs. Has anyone seen the WMVHD discs? Its 1080p with 5.1 on a DVD9.

[ricoman]

When reduced to a DVD9 size, it's virtually indistinguishable from the original. Who needs the larger disk sizes of these new formats anyways?

That's what I've been telling the Blu-Ray fanboys when they start talking about how it has 50gigs. Has anyone seen the WMVHD discs? Its 1080p with 5.1 on a DVD9.

Does this play on a regular DVD player? Do you burn it with a regular burner? What does it look like on a 50" HD display? If so where can I find one to try and where can I find more info?

[SatStorm]

I don't care for this HD VMD format. But if those HD VMD standalones players can playback DVD-R data discs with my own x264 material, I gonna buy one for sure!

[peggypwr1]

If WMVHD is so efficient and can look just as good on a regular DVD disc, why doesn't Microsoft lisense this format and the regular WMV format to electrnic companies, like DIVX has done?

Why deal with 30-50 gig HD movies when movie companies and put them on a regualr DVD disc with WMVHD?

[stiltman]

http://www.nmeinc.com/ML777S.htm
everything except DVD+DL listed
MPEG-4, VC1, WMV9, H.264

http://www.nmeinc.com/ML622S.htm
same specs

Authoring software (coming soon)
http://www.nmeinc.com/technology_authoring.aspx
It does list DVD+DL media, but the player specs don't

[gll99]

It's like an upgraded divx (mpeg-4) dvd player that also plays a new HD format plus wmv9 and h.264. At the price they quoted I'd buy it to play mpeg-4, wmv9 and h.264 encoded material from my computer.

If the new HD VMD format takes off that's a bonus but just playing the other formats makes it worthwhile.

[satviewer2000]

In answer to questions re my post:

1. No there is no current standalone player that can play x264 material. I doubt that there will be one anytime in the near future as x264 is open-source so there's not a lot of money to be made on it.

2. You have to play these files using a PC or multi-media computer (eg. HP builds many of these). Most computers and certainly nearly all modern videocards will have an DVI output which can be easily and cheaply hooked up to any HDTV with an HDMI input using a $10 adapter cable.

3. Go to the USENET for numerous "professionally" encoded hi-def sample material.

4. Yes, it looks amazing on my 52" HDTV DLP TV. I cannot tell the difference between these videos and MPEG2-HD video from my cablebox.

5. In many ways, WMV-HD is already obsolete. There are only a few titles available in WMV-HD, and none of the major studios support it. It's also extremely CPU intensive, even on higher end computers. H.264 and x264 are far superior, requiring much less CPU power, allow smaller sized files, and play at a higher quality than a similarly sized WMV-HD file.

[gll99]

edit:

[satviewer2000]

satviewer2000

1. No there is no current standalone player that can play x264 material. I doubt that there will be one anytime in the near future as x264 is open-source so there's not a lot of money to be made on it.

What about this one being discussed (see stiltman's comments and links)

http://www.nmeinc.com/ML777S.htm

Unfortunately, H.264 compatibility does NOT mean x264 compatibility.

[gll99]

Yes sorry I missed the x and edited the comment out after a reread but you posted first
edit: I guess it could work but there's no guarantee.

[SatStorm]

Greek OSD... Now, that's a suprise

Indeed, H264 does not mean x264 compatibility, but maybe a flavor of x264 could be compatible. I always tend to see H264 to x264 like DiVX to XviD.

[hellspawn1616]

HD VMD WILL BE THE FORMAT TO WATCH FOR. NOT BECAUSE OF THE CAPABILITIES THAT IT WILL OFFER BUT BECAUSE IT WILL FORCE ONE OF THE OTHER TWO FORMATS TO DROP THEIR PRICE. HD VMD WILL BE A CONSUMER FREINDLY PRODUCT BECAUSE OF ITS PRICE RANGE, CAPABILITIES WILL REMAIN TO BE SEEN. JUST LIKE CIRCUIT CITY TRIED TO PUSH DIVX FORMAT vs DVD FORMAT ADDING A THIRD PARTY FORMAT WILL FORCE PRICE DROPS ON BOTH HD DVD AND BLUE RAY DVDFORMATS. IN THE END HD DVD SHOULD WIN, AND NOT BECAUSE MICROSOFT BOASTS MUTCH ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY BUT BECAUSE SONY IS PUSHING BLUE RAY WAY TO MUTCH TO THE CONSUMER. HD VMD WILL BE A FACTOR AS A PRICE WAR WILL BEGIN ONCE IT IS LAUNCHED.

[edDV]

Was that sent by Western Union telegraph?