Repacing my old Quasar with ???

[Gritz]

My 31", 15yr old Quasar (Panasonic) still looks pretty good (colors are starting to wash) but I'm thinking it might be time to upgrade. I've browsed this forum until I'm blue in the face, and I've then gone to Best Buy and looked at HDTVs. I like Pioneer Plasma 42" (PHD-4280D) but then I thought ... I don't seem to see any posts in this forum on the Pioneers .... so maybe there's a reason?? In my viewing area in our living room it is 108" from eyeball to the display screen on my Quasar ... so I think I'm in the ballpark using the 5x display height for a 42" 16:9 (& I might be 10" closer during the exciting parts!). Of course my present CRT is pretty deep, so I could expand that distance a little. We have Direc*v, but of course no subscription to HD. Mostly we watch Fox News, The History Channel, the Discovery Channel, CMT (Country Music) and some of the free (no commercials) movies - Turner, Fox, etc, and local channels through a DTV standalone Tuner. I have a recently acquired Phillips DVP5982 DVD player and an old JVC HRS 8000U VHS player I want to attach. It seems I could just discard my old Yamaha AV switching box and just route all inputs directly to the 4280? So if anyone can think of any anomalies or situtations that could be of concern I would appreciate their thoughts.

Originally I thought if I could just find out what the members of this forum owned, I would go with that ... that would be a rating system in it's own, but I couldn't seem to get a consensus. I thought ... It would be nice to have a poll and find out what individuals owned .... or maybe it's been done already and I just don't know about it?

Anyway .... all input appreciated!

[Richard_G]

Sony Viera LCD or Panasonic plasma. I have the Panasonic 42" plasma and haven't seen anything better yet.

[jman98]

I own this Samsung 40" LCD HDTV

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HGL5RE/104-8872340-5784756

and it is fantastic. This is the most important advice I can give you.
I am getting truly excellent results from everything I watch on this TV - DVD, standard definition cable TV, HD TV, even crappy old VCD - and it all has to do with the connections. You MUST use high quality connections to your TV or anything you watch will look very bad. This includes connections from your cable box. High quality connections are:
component
DVI
HDMI

High quality connections are NOT:
S-Video
composite
old style coax like used with American cable boxes

Also, this is just as critical, you MUST be willing to change aspect ratios on your TV between 4:3 and 16:9 for best results. Is your source 4:3? (ie. VCD, standard definition TV, some DVDs) Then watch it in 4:3. Only watch stuff in 16:9 that's really in 16:9 or higher resolutions. Lots of people get lazy and watch everything in 16:9 and that will make lower quality video sources like VCD and standard definition TV look like absolute crap on an HD TV. 16:9 will magnify all defects in 4:3 video sources. So whatever TV you get, be sure to have high quality connections to it and watch in the appropriate aspect ratio or be prepared to be disappointed.

[Seeker47]

My 31", 15yr old Quasar (Panasonic) still looks pretty good (colors are starting to wash) but I'm thinking it might be time to upgrade. I've browsed this forum until I'm blue in the face, and I've then gone to Best Buy and looked at HDTVs. I like Pioneer Plasma 42" (PHD-4280D) but then I thought ... I don't seem to see any posts in this forum on the Pioneers .... so maybe there's a reason?? In my viewing area in our living room it is 108" from eyeball to the display screen on my Quasar ... so I think I'm in the ballpark using the 5x display height for a 42"

I'm researching CRT replacements also, but in smaller sizes than you are, because the first one is not for a living room or main room. It will probably have to be LCD, between 20" and 26" in size. (I think the plasma TVs start at around 40".) You may find some good comments here, but they will be scattered around, as this does not seem to be a primary focus of this site. You might do better over at AVSFORUM, or some of the primarily home theater-oriented sites. There are also a few slick periodicals on the market, but in those cases you have to wonder about reviews being tainted by advertiser dollars.

That said, I think that I am rather critical in appraising the pq of the many displays that I've seen -- if anything, overly critical. These things constitute an expensive purchase, particularly if you are going for a good one, and I'm not all that sold on the technology. For one thing, I really doubt they will give us even half as many years of service as we got out of the CRTs. (And that may be a best case scenario !)

First up, I would be replacing a 20" CRT. In the LCD size I'm looking for right now, I think it comes down to a run-off between the Toshibas and the Samsungs, and so far I'm leaning towards Toshiba. But it may come down to what is available at the right size. The Toshiba models had jumped from 20" straight to 26", but they may now have something in between. It's funny, but the square 20" CRT looks significantly larger than a 16:9 23" LCD to me, at the same distance . . . so I may have to go 26".

I used to find nearly all the plasma panels to be dark and grainy, even when supposedly fed a high-def signal. But the current generation seems to have undergone dramatic improvements, over what I recall from earlier on. (Either that, or the display floor personnel have finally learned how to set them up a whole lot better. But I would lean more to the former.) There seem to be quite a few good ones now, but I haven't seen any I thought better than the top Pioneers, though you are talking pretty big bucks in that case.

I would like to learn a lot more about the DLP type and the projectors, though they are certainly not candidates for this particular location.

[Gritz]

Thanks guys .... much appreciated;

Richard_G; I went back to Best Buy and looked at the 42" Panasonic ... very nice. The problem is that everything they show is piped in from "Headquarters" so naturally ... it's HD. And I was told it's too expensive to put Direc*v on all TVs on display and "we already pay $600 - $700 to license it on just two systems" ..... hmmmmm. So we went to the area where they can show the difference (on two side-by-side LCDs) of HD vs SD. So I asked for Fox News. Guess what? The display on Fox News was Zoomed much too large and he was unable to adjust it to normal ... so it looked horrible. My old Quasar looks MUCH better. Now I know Fox News is not HD .... but I did not expect it to look worse than my 15 year old Quasar. When he dialed in ABC then I could see the difference ... but I don't watch ABC. So much for that demo.

Jman98: I also looked at the Samsungs ... which too were impressive. The small differences that I could see were the result of individual adjustments I am sure of. And I think your comments on "having a willingness to change the output to match the source" will make a huge difference too. I have a friend who purchased a Sony KDL-40V2500 who insisted on running everything in 16:9 and I can tell you that much of it just looks horrible. He expected it to look just like the HD pictures he saw on the show floor. But I could not find in his controls how to tell what the Display resolution was .... but I do see that the Direc*v Receiver has a control in front for changing (input I think). The really strange thing to me is that he is paying for HD service from Direc*v .... but there are almost NO channels available in HD for him to watch?? And .... his local channels really suck on his screen ... even in 4:3. I have a digital receiver for my old tube TV that pick up local digital channels and it looks 10 times better than the local channels that he gets through Direc*v!!? Weird.

Seeker47; I have to agree that the technology does not seem that refined yet when you compare it to what you CURRENTLY are getting via local digital to a CRT. (Anyway ... that's my experience). And who really knows about the lifespan? My daughter has a hand-me-down CRT that came used from a hospital some 20 years ago ... now it's showing it's age ... but it's still serviceable!! Now if I could find one of the Sony 34" Superfine Pitch CRT where I could see it hands on .... I might buy it.

But so far ... I'm still researching and looking. I also went to Costco today ... same thing ... everything is piped in via HD ... nothing locally. Now that's a shame ... and hard to make a comparison. Thanks again guys ....

[Richard_G]

You have found the problem with most sales people, they know sod all about the products they are selling and even less about how to use it! The displays in stores are really only useful to compare the pictures between different brands, colour saturation, any artifacts, etc.

A follow on from both the picture you saw on the Panasonic and to Jman98s comment about changing the display. On my Panasonic there is an Aspect button on the remote, this cycles through, 16:9, 4:3, Zoom1, Zoom2, Zoom3 and Auto (sounds like your salesman didn't know about this.....). I fully agree with Jman98s comment that 4:3 footage, stretched horizontally to fill a 16:9 screen looks horrible. Panasonics Auto setting enlarges 4:3 footage to fill the screen width but keeps the aspect ratio correct so the top and bottom of the picture is cut off (a sort of vertical only ultimate overscan). Most of the time it isn't even noticable. It might be a problem if there are subtitles but most older 4:3 material doesn't have them. If that is the case, you might prefer to exercise your finger and set to 4:3 where the picture is displayed full height but with bars at each side. I very rarely have to do this as the Auto setting sorts it out properly anyway. The Sony Viera range work in a similar manner.

Admittedly, I'm talking about a UK spec PAL set with integrated digital tuner, but I'm assuming the US version works in the same way.

[edDV]

FWIW I just went through the research for a new 46".

I agree the new mid 2007 models seem much improved and prices continue to drop. It may be tempting to buy a last year model at deep discount but I think the new generation panels, deinterlace chips and ATSC/QAM tuners are worth paying a bit more for the new models. Most new models are also come with 3 HDMI inputs.

The Pioneer Elite series has been considered the top for plasmas especially in large sizes but the Panasonics are also very good. A friend has a 2006 model 42" Panasonic that seems perfect for a small living room. I was impressed with the way the Panasonic handled standard analog and SD cable MPeg2. Try to see these with a sat tuner connected and in home type lighting. The upscale home theater specialty stores often have the connections needed and home type store lighting. In most cases they will match chain store prices and have much more knowledgable sales and support people.

The new generation LCD's are looking much better for response time and black levels. The new Samsungs beat last years Sony XBR 2/3 in my opinion but the new Sony XBR 4/5's come out this month. If you want the Lexus of LCD, Sony and Samsung seem to have that space.

Budget models are looking better too and reasonable quality 42" models are available under $1000.

[jman98]

Richard_G - My Samsung has 2 zoom options (on auto on this TV), but I refuse to use them as it cuts off too much of the picture in my opinion. However, as you state, it does preserve aspect ratio. Seeing black bars on the side of 4:3 video does not bother me at all, but I guess if someone is one of those many people who absolutely lose their minds over it (there are a lot of such people, unfortunately), then zoom and auto like you mention are options they might want to consider.

[Gritz]

I appreciate the comebacks .... and I keep trying to poke all this in my brain! There are SO many factors that I often can't think of when I get on the showfloor too. Example ..... about processing .... words like "Cinema Deinterlacing Progressive" ..... so I wrote it down, went back and casually mentioned it like I knew what I was talking about! Now that was a wasted effort! The response was "WHAT!!". So I went home to re-read what I copied and pasted online ...and then (just for practice) looked through the specs on the manuals for my Phillips DVP 5982 processor. Nothing. So I read the specs in my buddys Sony Bravia KDL-40V2500 manual .... nothing similar. I looked at the printout I did online for the Sony KD34XS95 .... nope! It does mention WEGA which appears to be one of the processors. So the search continues.

edDV; Thanks for the reaffirmation on the Pioneers ... I'm still looking at those but I want to see LOCAL TV as well as Direc*v through them and so far all the input is the HD disc stuff so I can't get an idea of what they will look like at home. I think today I'll run over to RCWileys and see what their setups display.

On another note I saw locally a used 34" 2002 Sony KD30XS95 for $400 (would probably take $300) supposedly in "Good" condition. Now my daughter who has this old hospital 20 years + CRT TV that is purple in the corners is looking for something decent and would this be that? It would do local digital (which is pretty fair in Boise) with it's built in tuner (AFAICT) and maybe be useable for cable or sat when she gets it. Anything I should know if I go and check this out?

Oh yeah .... I found the purchase date of my Quasar ... Jan 22, 1988 .... so it's 20 yrs old. When I said 15 I was looking at the end of my "Service" contract. Must be an "EverReady" TV ......

Thanks again guys .....

[edDV]

Example ..... about processing .... words like "Cinema Deinterlacing Progressive" ..... so I wrote it down, went back and casually mentioned it like I knew what I was talking about! Now that was a wasted effort! The response was "WHAT!!". .....

There are three major parts to a digital TV. Most people see (literally) the display system. They understand screen size and the different display technologies (e.g. CRT, plasma, LCD and the various projection technologies). For plasma and LCD, performance is converging for the various brands. A new generation display will outperform older models by a greater margin than between current brands but be sure to get the newest generation.

The same is true with digital tuners that are improving dramatically every year. Current models tune ATSC and QAM (digital cable). A minority offer cablecard that allows the tuner to access premium cable services (without a cable box rental).

The most important differentiator for premium vs economy models and brand to brand is the processing engine. At the base level, the generic digital TV chipsets are improving the low end models. Premium brands compete on advanced deinterlacing, cinema reverse telecine and automatic picture correction features. Most of these features go over the head of the first time progressive TV buyer. They don't understand the problems until they buy that first flat screen. Some see the deinterlacing errors (noisy blocky motion) right away others live with it. The toughest inputs are analog composite and generic cable/sat 524x480i MPeg2.

If you are bottom fishing for price, there is an alternate strategy for cable/sat customers. Connect your flat panel to the box with 720p HDMI or 720p/480p analog component and let the box do the 480i/1080i deinterlacing. Then keep up with cable/sat box technology and exchange your box when new models come out for improved performance.

If you plan to use 480i satellite as your primary source, you should look at more premium flat panel processors like the Sony XBR's and the later Samsungs for LCD or the Pioneer/Panasonic plasmas.

Other digital TV features like audio and I/O are fairly generic these days.

edDV; Thanks for the reaffirmation on the Pioneers ... I'm still looking at those but I want to see LOCAL TV as well as Direc*v through them and so far all the input is the HD disc stuff so I can't get an idea of what they will look like at home. I think today I'll run over to RCWileys and see what their setups display.

On another note I saw locally a used 34" 2002 Sony KD30XS95 for $400 (would probably take $300) supposedly in "Good" condition. .....

Remember that local analog broadcasting will stop February 17th, 2009. You need a good ATSC digital tuner and an antenna to get the direct digital broadcasts. Enter your address into http://www.antennaweb.org/ to find your local options. Be aware that two things will happen on the day of switchover. Analog will be turned off and most of the digital channels will change frequencies and power. You need to confirm what the final channel assignments will be for your local TV stations. In the west, many stations want to retain upper VHF channels* for digital broadcasting but most will be on UHF. You may need a combo VHF/UHF antenna, UHF only or multiple antennas if transmitters are scattered. Inside cities, an interior antenna may be enough. This option will improve as transmitter power goes full on February 17th, 2009.

* for better long distance reach.


PS: That Sony TV looks good but it will need an ATSC tuner for over the air reception after February 17th, 2009. There will be government $40 rebates available and tuners will be better and cheaper as the date approaches.

[Gritz]

Thanks edDV,
Today I looked at the Elite model of the Pioneers today .... and the sales person said the only difference between it and the the 4280 was that the resolution was upped, which probably wouldn't make any difference in my case at 8' (especially for the $700 price difference). I DID get to see Fox News on the Pioneer and the pq was definitely better than my friends (last year's) Sony LCD ... which is to be expected I guess. But actually .... very acceptable on the Pioneer.

Thanks again for all the info .... and I definitely feel I that have more "customer power" now ... and even caught the salesman in a few errors today. Like any good salesman though ... he recovered quickly!!

And now on to my next challenge which is not so easy ... (the wife) .

[blinky88]

Gritz

I too, am looking to buy the Pioneer Kuro 4280 when it becomes available in Australia. From the reviews from techs and people who have purchased them, they are simply the best. I have not seen one bad remark about them.