So far, VISTA has more holes than swiss cheese...

[ahhaa]

... or XP did at the same stage (delay plus 6) of development. This's getting typical :

This month’s batch of patches from Microsoft includes six bulletins covering at least 15 vulnerabilities, including several critical code execution holes in Windows Vista and Internet Explorer 7.
In all, Redmond pushed out four critical bulletins with fixes for flaws that could put Windows users at risk of complete PC takeover attacks. The most serious is a cumulative Internet Explorer update (MS07-033) that affects all versions of the dominant browser — IE 5.01 on Windows 2000 through IE 7 on Windows Vista.
The mega IE update addresses a total of six flaws, including one that was publicly discussed prior to Patch Tuesday. Interestingly, all six IE bugs are rated “critical” across the board, except
for some versions of Windows Server 2003.


There's more and a step by step IE fix at:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=292


interestingly, there is also a major presentation for M$ Forefront there, their new Symantec killer product that onestops all security needs.

so why should they ironclad the OS when vulnerabilities sell another pricey product?

[redwudz]

For some security improvements, I'm trying the beta version of ZoneAlarm for Vista. Seems to work well enough. Vista's onboard firewall is all but useless as it doesn't block any outgoing packets. These are commonly used by malware to send out information from your system.

But Vista is likely similar to XP for security problems at the early stages. For now, for most people, it's better to wait a little longer and see how it improves before installing.

But many new computers have Vista installed whether wanted or not. I like the interfaces myself and I've had minimal problems since the install. Complain or not by some people, it's here to stay.

Some add-on security programs work fine. I run SpyBot and Spyware Blaster with no problems. And if you use FireFox instead of IE7, a lot of IE problems are avoided.

I have only found a very few programs that won't run properly, so I'm happy enough with the OS. (Vista Home Premium.)

[guns1inger]

The program I miss the most on my laptop is NetStumbler. I use this to track and manage our wireless network (some 37 access points), Alas - no Vista version yet.

[stantheman1976]

So far I've been able to use all my old programs. I'm kind of angry recently. I bought a Tascam audio analog to digital converter and it has no Vista drivers right now. My main goal was to record from soundboard onto my laptop with the converter.

[BJ_M]

NetStumbler is great ... use it all the time alone with wireshark \\\


i dont use Vista at all though

[lordsmurf]

I'm still confused why people upgrade if what they have works perfectly fine.

[ssj2_goha]

Yesterday at work i had to try to get a vista laptop to work on our Wired network........ that was such a pain i spent an hour just trying to figure out why ie7 just would not launch....... then after i got it to launch any website i typed in it would say "this address is invalid" i finally put it back in the box and took it back to the store. too much of a head ache over an os that is behind the other os available. at least software actually runs on other operating systems with out chrashing b4 a window shows up..................

[AlecWest]

I heard a news snippet on the radio yesterday that Toshiba was going to start releasing more laptops with XP installed - to be marketed alongside Vistafied models - until Vista sales improved. Apparently, they're convinced that a downturn in their laptop sales might be due to Vista being unpopular. This might not be true. But selling XP and Vista models side by side might be pretty revealing. If the downturn continues, Vista isn't their problem. However, if the XP models sell well and the Vista models don't, there might be more XP models released in the future. Sales rule in the boardroom, regardless of OS.

[thecoalman]

Unless there's a significant price difference I'd be suprised if XP outsold Vista, consumers want the "latest and greatest".

[ssj2_goha]

..............."latest and greatest"....... osX 10.5 but that is neither here nor there

[AlecWest]

Unless there's a significant price difference I'd be suprised if XP outsold Vista, consumers want the "latest and greatest".

Latest, true. Greatest? Remains to be seen. But, at least Microsoft is making an attempt to patch holes.

My new PC arrived last night but was busy all day today. It's still in the packing box. But when it's all set up, Win2K Pro SP4 will be loaded up. It may not be the latest or the greatest, but at least I don't have to worry about validation and revalidation scenarios.

[thecoalman]

Didn't mean to imply that its the greatest hence the quotes, but that's what consumers perceive. I haven't used it yet so I couldn't even give an opinion. I probably won't see it on any of my computers for a few years.

[guns1inger]

I'm still confused why people upgrade if what they have works perfectly fine.

Sometimes you don't have a choice. I still run XP at home, and aren't in any hurry to upgrade. The laptop is used for support work, and like it or not, Vista is something I have to be able to support. Can't do it if I don't know it.

[stantheman1976]

I didn't really want Vista, but I wanted a laptop. I couldn't afford one last year before Vista became standard install. So when I found a really good deal on a Toshiba Satellite a few months back that I could afford I jumped on it.

I actually tried installing XP recently, but Toshiba's site doesn't even offer XP drivers for my model so I couldn't get numerous devices working properly. I restored and started with Vista again.

[ozymango]

I actually tried installing XP recently, but Toshiba's site doesn't even offer XP drivers for my model so I couldn't get numerous devices working properly. I restored and started with Vista again.

I work at a university and one of our users recently bought (for work use) a new HP laptop, but did not contact us (tech support) before ordering it. And the new HP laptop had Vista installed, basic or whatever the "lightest" version is -- and HP's site listed absolutely no XP drivers for that laptop, period. And we don't support Vista on our network yet, it's got too many admin headaches we're just not ready for. This isn't dumping on MS or Vista, it's just that we've got enough on our hands at the moment and we're just not ready. Even if that's displeasing to MS or HP.

Of course our user should have checked before buying this PC to make sure it would be supported by us, but of course if anybody ever asks me what computer to buy, the first thing I say is, "Do NOT buy an HP computer, period." HP used to make great printers but I quite seriously would not take an HP "manufactured" item if you paid me to use it.

Anyway, a little sleuthing on the web to chase down the actual mb manufacturer (Asus), and I located the XP drivers for that puppy -- thank goodness for the Internet!!! -- and I avoided having to tell the user to return the computer to HP. But if it were my choice, I would have returned the PC and told HP, "I found the drivers for this PC to make it work with XP, and it's not hard for HP to make those drivers available to an interested customer. So if you don't want to support XP on this computer, then I'm not going to support HP."

[Super Warrior]

To hell with Vista, XP all the way in the longrun!!

[ark]

To hell with VISTA & XP

I still have two desktops running Win98SE and only problem I have is getting proper Antivirus/Firewall.

[ozymango]

I still have two desktops running Win98SE and only problem I have is getting proper Antivirus/Firewall.

I've got a couple of old laptops running 98SE and they work just fine.

I'm not opposed to improving technology, but it does torque me off when MS and others say, "You need to buy a newer computer and spend more money for stuff you don't need, because we say so." To which I say, "Bite me!" :P

My el cheapo laptops run Word just find, and can browse the web wirelessly at my local coffee shop. That's all I need. It's all I want. And for this I should buy a new computer and OS? No thanks!

[lordsmurf]

I'm quite fond of my HP laptop, a November 2006 model. It works well. Then again, it's a nice one, not the cheap-bin version.

[ozymango]

I'm quite fond of my HP laptop, a November 2006 model. It works well.

Let us know how it's working November 2007!

[EddyH]

> Let us know how it's working November 2007!

Hopefully about as well as the one I'm typing on, purchased May 2006... Very few complaints about it so far, definitely less than pretty much any other PC I've ever used. Mind you, Vista wasn't even out then, so I can't comment about the trouble currently to hand, other than that the school I work at buys HP laptops on a regular basis and they're all still XP Pro pre-installed - the school's policy in fact is to not buy anything Vista based until the security and networking issues have been firmly squashed, so if they weren't offering it, the money wouldn't be handed over.

EddyH <3 HPCompaq TC4200

[ozymango]

Hopefully about as well as the one I'm typing on, purchased May 2006... Very few complaints about it so far, definitely less than pretty much any other PC I've ever used.

My tongue-in-cheek point is just that whatever computer/hardware/software brand "sucks" to one person, is another's choice, the old saw about "there's no accounting for taste." :P

EDIT: Please note that I was able to get the user's HP laptop to run XP, and made the customer very happy, regardless of my own personal feelings -- though not with any help from HP!

[EddyH]

Heh I know what you mean really... it rings of discussions had in the 'office' (well, workroom) quite recently.
Need to talk to the support team on a couple of points, to do with 'can i upgrade the hd + ram myself without voiding the warranty seeing as i'm about a month away from A+ certification?', 'is the touchpen covered by it?*', and a very intermittent hibernation/videocard bug that's resurfaced - hope your experience isn't indicative of the fairly good service I received last time having gone down the tubes

(nothing good ever lasts after all ... but archaeologists have made exhibits of dinosaur s*** that's survived millions of years!)
(* never underestimate how dependent you can get on one of these until you try - all laptops should have one, it speeds up windows interactions SO much compared to touchpad/stick even when you're not in tablet mode)

[ozymango]

- hope your experience isn't indicative of the fairly good service I received last time having gone down the tubes

In a not-entirely-cynical way, it could be just that we're not a volume HP customer, and you guys are, so of course they're gonna pay more attention to your needs, hence you get better service. Sorta like, we're a Dell campus and whenever I've had a problem with any Dell computer, it's fixed the next day. Every single time. They'll send us the parts overnight, they'll send a technician if we want -- basically I don't have to lift a freakin' finger to fix a hardware problem with a Dell, if I don't want.

And yet I fully believe that there are people out there who hate Dell due to sucky service, probably because Dell is jumping to it whenever I call and you guys just have to wait because you just bought one PC for your home.

EDIT: Oh, and to stay somewhat on-topic, I did install Vista on my work laptop (Dell Latitude D620) and while I don't have any great complaints about it (Vista), I don't have any great kudos for it either. I do understand that there are a bunch of security features in Vista that make our network security team salivate over, but it's not something I have to deal with directly and aside from that, there's nothing about Vista that makes me want to upgrade to it of my own volition.

[AlecWest]

To hell with VISTA & XP

I still have two desktops running Win98SE and only problem I have is getting proper Antivirus/Firewall.

Depends on what you mean by "proper." Up until last week, my old desktop was still running the free antivirus utiliy from Grisoft in a Win98SE environment. Their latest version (7.5) still supports 98SE. Visit:

http://free.grisoft.com

And, while you can't get updates anymore. the last ZoneAlarm version to support Win98SE is still available direct from ZoneLabs:

http://download.zonelabs.com/bin/free/1023_zl/zlsSetup_61_744_001_en.exe