DVD-R or DVD+R?

[nocam1334]

I am looking into getting a DVD burner but I am unsure about which one I should get. The Pioneer DVR-A03 burner supports DVD-R and DVD-RW, while the HP DVD-Writer DVD100i supports the DVD+R and DVD+RW. I have looked at the DVD players list and it seems that the - is more compatible than the +. Does anyone have any first hand experience dealing with any of these burners? Does anyone know what the future holds for each format (if a standard is going one way or the other)? Are there any other DVD burner out there other than these? I would appreciate any comments or feedback.

[Xesdeeni]

I too am trying to decide what drive to get based on lots of information I have read. Here are some of the CONs about each one I have heard/read:

Que: DVD-R/DVD-RAM - No DVD-RW; No CD writing
Pioneer: DVD-R/DVD-RW/CD-R/CD-RW - DVD-RW @ 1x
HP: DVD+RW/CD-R/CD-RW - Trouble reading DVD-Rs; HP won't update firmware for DVD+Rs when available; DVD+RWs are $15 each
Phillips: DVD+RW/CD-R/CD-RW - Same drive as HP; (don't know about firmware upgrade for DVD+Rs)
Ricoh: DVD+RW/CD-R/CD-RW - Same drive as HP; (don't know about firmware upgrade for DVD+Rs)
Sony: DVD+RW - ???

So my thoughts are:

For me, the Que is completely out, because I want to be able to burn DVD*RWs for testing before I commit to DVD*R.

The 1x recording of DVD-RWs on the Pioneer bothers me. The DVD+RW advocate sites imply that ony DVD+RW drives can erase and write at the same time, so you may have to erase the DVD-RW to use it again, meaning it's really 1/2x. Since I really don't want even $3 coasters while I experiment with data rates, formats, menus, etc., RW is a requirement for me.

HP's refusal to upgrade the firmware for the DVD+Rs means you are stuck with the $15 per DVD+RW. I am assuming DVD+Rs will be less (or they wouldn't be introducing them this year), so distribution (of home movies) to family and friends would be much more expensive than via DVD-R. That means the HP drive is out for me as well.

I'm still collecting info, but for now it just doesn't look like one stands out for my purposes. Hope this helps you a bit.

Xesdeeni


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Xesdeeni on 2002-01-09 12:59:31 ]</font>

[Valnar]

Until DVD+R becomes a reality, the only option is DVD-R with the Pioneer. Just get the Pioneer. The DVD-R discs are fairly cheap and work well in most players.

If/when the DVD+R compatible drives come out, *AND* the DVD+R discs are cheaper, *AND* they are compatible as the DVD-R discs, *THEN* it would be worth upgrading because the format is faster and the DVD+RW standard in general is better for data storage (in addition to video DVD).

I'm going to buy the Pioneer A03 for now, and when the format wars are finished, pick the one I really want and eBay the Pioneer if necessary.

Even if 10 or 20 years from now DVD+R wins out, all my DVD-R discs will still work, so its no loss.

Robert

[pants]

there is also a, i think hitachi or toshiba drive coming out that lacie will package, that's dvd-r/rw, cd-r/rw, and dvd-ram, they are supposed to be out like march april. got this from lacie at macworld. price to be in the same range as the current drives now.

pants

[SatStorm]

DVD - R seems to be the standard for one-time-write disks. Those are for home-made PC media use, that is most of us..
Also, they gonna play DVD Video and Audio on most standalones. All new models support them

DVD + RW seems to be the standard for VCR-like machines, for general home use, like real time TV grabbing. We gonna use those future machines,like we do today with VHS... There is already a Philips DVD+RW on that direction...

The true is, that the Companies wish to keep PC users and Common users on seperate markets. They already tried that with the CD-R media...
Computer CD-R(w) are cheaper that CD-R(w)Audio discs. Even if you do the work with the first ones, there is a market for the second ones! The same is happening with DVD - R and +RW
For people not like PCs, DVD+RW machines gonna be a hit. For all others, DVD-R is the way to go.
The compatibility gonna be for both formats on the standalones. If a standalone hopes to be a Hit, needs compatibility with any DVD/CD format out there, don't mention Picture formats like VCD/CVD/SVCD/D2 DVD, D4 DVD, etc... I believe in the near future some DVD standalones will support Divx too... It happend with mp3, why not with Divx?

From the other hand, I believe that the future of DVD-RW is limited, only to PC world, while the future of DVD+R is even more Limited. Who gonna buy DVD+R disks? Only someone having a PC. But on computers there is DVD-R, years now... Why to bother with DVD+R? For the non PC Market also, think a bit: Who gonna buy a VHS write-only-once tape? None! The same with DVD+R.

So, I suggest DVD-R Recorder. If you wait until April, there gonna be a new DVD-R on 2X speed. April ain't that far...

[Xesdeeni]

SatStorm, in order:

DVD-R is the only write-once DVD available today, so of course it's the standard. But technically only the DVD-Rg (general) discs are meant for home use. DVD-Ra (authoring) are meant for professional use. Both are playable in any DVD player, although a special burner is necessary for DVD-Ra discs, and they generally cost more.

I think you are right that DVD+RW will probably be the format of choice for entertainment DVD recorders (a la VCRs), but all the rest is up in the air. I strongly suspect things will be dictated by the price of the drives and media.

I think you are reading too much into the CD-R battle in assigning responsibility to "the Companies." The recording industry (RIAA) is responsible for the "computer" and "audio" CD-R formats. But it has nothing to do with separation of computer and "common" users. They felt (rightly or wrongly is a different debate) that they were being robbed of royalties for CDs made by users. There was no way they were going to be able to get a fee from blank CD-Rs that could also be used for computer data, so they created the audio CD-R format and worked with the discrete component manufacturers (many already in the same companies with recording companies) to enforce that these entertainment CD burners, which could only be used for audio, must use the special audio CD-Rs.

It remains to be seen whether DVD+Rs arrive this year as expected, and whether their cost is lower than DVD+RWs and can compete with DVD-Rs. If they don't DVD-R(W) may indeed gain the lead on the desktop. But if they do, the fact that there are now many more DVD+R(W) drives than DVD-R(W) drives (although many are the same inside, customers don't realize that), plus DVD+RW use in entertainment DVD burners (VCR replacements), DVD+R(W) may move into the lead. But nocam1334 and myself are looking at the here and now.

Today the Pioneer is probably just ahead of the others in my book. This is mainly because of the cheaper DVD-R media. But the 1x write time of DVD-RW is a problem for me, since I will be experimenting with DVD video before burning DVD-Rs for distribution to friends and family. The DVD+RW drives might have been a better long term choice, but DVD+RW discs are expensive, and the manufacturers are making noises like they won't upgrade them for DVD+Rs when they come out (assuming they are about the same price as DVD-Rs).

The biggest other issue is whether all these devices will read each other's formats. The HP review said it wouldn't read DVD-Rs. If I get a DVD-R from a friend, I certainly want to be able to read it in my DVD drive, whether it's video or data! I suspect the reverse is true as well. But if I record a show with DVD+RW on my entertainment DVD recorder (in the future), I will likely want to edit out the commercials, combine multi-part programs, etc., and burn a long-term copy on my PC. If I get a DVD-R(W) drive, I don't know whether it will be able to read it. So my money stays in my pocket....

Certainly there is a place for CD*R, while they are cheaper than CD*RW. If I want to send DVDs of my home movies to several family members, I'd rather spend less. Today I can get DVD-Rs for $3 each, while DVD*RWs run about $15. If that trend holds in the long run (and although the gap has narrowed, CD-Rs are still cheaper than CD-RWs), then there will probably always be a place for DVD*Rs.

Xesdeeni

[dood]

The $2.95 per disc media cost is what made up my mind to go with the Pioneer A03. VHS tapes cost almost that much.

DVD-R also seems to be the more compatible of the formats.

I doubt if you'll find anyone who is unhappy with their Pioneer A03 purchase decision. But I've read where many people have been returning their HP100i after they buy a few $15 blanks...

[jeff_marek]

...I've done lots of research on pricing. The cheapest for DVD-R seems to be $2.75 or $4.95 for a double sided disk.

The cheapest price for a DVD+RW disc is $9.79 (Sony)
http://www.taperesources-store.com/store/products.asp?dept=89

The cheapest price for a Pioneer DVD-R is $390.


Pioneer DVD-R Drive $390 http://www.taperesources-store.com/store/products.asp?dept=89

I went with the HP DVD+RW myself and occassionally regret not having the Pioneer... only when I think I might distribute lots of videos. In the end, I couldn't stand the slow speed of the pioneer. I figure I'll buy a DVD-R next year when they are $150 and use the +RW now.

Jeff

[SatStorm]

Well, maybe you have right Xesdeeni. The cheaper product, the bigger success...
If the DVDplus format is cheaper than the DVDminus format, then it gonna take the lead of the market.
Personaly, I don't care for plus or minus, just to get my job done, cheap easy and fast!

I also believe that the big manufactures don't like format battles anymore. The reason is that there are winners and loosers on technology battles. But there are no battles on different markets, even if the technology is almost the same. So, they create different markets and they want market shares.
The are plenty of them today: PC market, Home market, Game market, proffecional market.... All shares the same technology, but there are also different...
Think us, the power users: We have DVD players, game consoles, PC's, digital satellite recievers. All are the same and also different...
It is a trap, and we can't do a thing for it.
Only to wait some years for universal solutions.
Till then, let's choose the best for our wallet!