HP Pavillion question

[AlecWest]

Just got a new HP Pavillion notebook and had a question. The store didn't have time to make recovery disks for me before I took it home ... so I made them myself (4 DVDs). But since I bought it, I noticed that my single 80 gig HD was partitioned. Drive C is the main drive partition. Drive D is named HP Recovery and carves out almost 14 gigs for itself. Does drive D continue to serve a useful purpose now that I have recovery disks? If not, could I use my Partition Magic software to remove the partition? It sure would be nice to have those other 14 gigs to play around with.

But, I wouldn't want to do something stupid ...

P.S. The OS onboard is XP Pro Media Center Edition. And, the Pavillion model I have has space for a 2nd HD.

[jameshgross]

Dont delete the HP Recovery partition!!
Your user manual will tell you how to recover a messed up Drv C:.
Its save my life several times.

What you can do is make a ghost of drv C: and drv D: that way you can always restore the computer to the original condition.

[BJ_M]

i wiped out vista for once and all (after burning d: backup to a disk) - installed winxp ...

using vistaboot loader still though - with a setup to go back to vista if i choose to ...

[AlecWest]

Dont delete the HP Recovery partition!!
Your user manual will tell you how to recover a messed up Drv C:.
Its save my life several times.

What you can do is make a ghost of drv C: and drv D: that way you can always restore the computer to the original condition.

Excellent suggestion (re Ghost). While I may install a 2nd physical HD in the future, your idea gives me new impetus to consider an external HD I can use for such a purpose ... putting it away in a drawer for that rainy day. Thanks.

***Edit*** - Actually, if Ghost would restore Drive C to the state it was in at backup time, it would make Drive D unnecessary ... freeing up my 14 gigs.

[redwudz]

Yes, HP puts all the recovery stuff on a separate partition. That one is fairly large, though. If you ever need to re-install the OS at some point, that's usually where the XP OS 'disc' resides. Destroy that and you will need to buy XP all over again.

With HP laptops, I would spend a while rooting out all the 'crap' that they install and you should free up a fair amount of HD space.

If you have space for a second HD, that definitely would be helpful on most laptops.

I did delete the recovery partition on my HP laptop after I got tired of deleting all the HP stuff each time when reinstalling the OS. It was a bit of a pain removing it, though. And you need to get all the HP drivers ready on a separate disc. I wouldn't do this until your warranty runs out.

[p_l]

Don't cuss and cry.
Decrapify!

http://www.yorkspace.com/pc-de-crapifier/

[AlecWest]

Yes, HP puts all the recovery stuff on a separate partition. That one is fairly large, though. If you ever need to re-install the OS at some point, that's usually where the XP OS 'disc' resides. Destroy that and you will need to buy XP all over again.

If that's true, that I'd need to re-buy XP, what are the recovery disks for? An XP OEM did not come with my laptop ... only the option to make a recovery disk set (which I assumed would accomplish the same thing).

In any case, I don't "need" the 14 GB ... just that it would be nice to have them to play around with. I'll maintain the status-quo until the end of my 3-year extended warranty period.

However (grin), before Vista becomes a "required" OS to have (if it ever does), I will buy the latest version of XP-friendly Ghost as well as an external HD to back things up to.

[Faustus]

My UNDERSTANDING is that you make the backup disk in case your drive fails but that the recovery partition still holds all your recovery information.

I thought the HP utilities had an option to remove most of it after you create the disk. I could be wrong though.

[fritzi93]

According to the article linked to below, it's possible to make a bootable XP setup disc from the i386 folder on your recovery disc. Anyone ever try it?

http://www.howtohaven.com/system/createwindowssetupdisk.shtml

[edong]

Aside from saving a few bucks, I do not know any other reasons why HP does not include recovery discs. How many people know they have to create those discs, let alone the knowledge to do it? The procedure is pretty straightforward for computer literates but for the many people, it will be a daunting task. My niece, who did not know the need to create the recovery discs, almost got stuck when her laptop won't boot because of corrupted registry. How can she use the recovery partition in that situation? What if the HD crashed beyond repair? Only luck prevented her from buying the discs from HP.

To the OP, I would delete that partition only if there is a limitation on how many copies I can make from it. In other words, if I cannot use it anymore. Because, I do not trust the discs that I will make. Twice I saved the Ghost files of my C drive to DVDs. Twice I was not able to restore the image from those discs. There are too many missing files that it won't boot. I was only able to restore from the original Ghost files in the HD.

[ScorpioDragon]

The HP Recovery partition is useful when trying to fix/reinstall any of the preinstalled software without the need of any recovery discs. Other than that, it just takes up space because it contains all of the "bloatware" that came preinstalled. I made recovery discs and also ghosted both partitions for backup purposes, then I deleted the recovery partition in order to free up space. Later I performed a full reinstall from my recovery discs alone, so the recovery partition was not needed to perform a full reinstall.

[ntscuser]

According to the article linked to below, it's possible to make a bootable XP setup disc from the i386 folder on your recovery disc. Anyone ever try it?

http://www.howtohaven.com/system/createwindowssetupdisk.shtml

Yes. I tried it and it didn't work because HP don't include the critical boot files needed with their version of XP.

That is also why I haven't deleted the recovery partition because it is just possible the HP won't boot without it.

HP does offer a set of boot discs for a nominal fee and I strongly advise every HP owner to take advantage of their offer.

[Jeremiah58]

AlecWest,
This is useful:
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=318510&highlight=

[AlecWest]

Interesting feedback from everyone - thanks. I've bookmarked this page for further study.

Twice I saved the Ghost files of my C drive to DVDs. Twice I was not able to restore the image from those discs. There are too many missing files that it won't boot.

This is puzzling. Assuming Ghost creates an "image" of the C drive, how could there be "missing files?"

[ntscuser]

I haven't had any luck with backup DVDs either. What I do now is install a second hard drive, use Acronis to copy the entire contents of the main drive, then remove the second hard drive and store it in a safe place. Then if everything goes wrong all I have to do is swap the two drives and I'm back to where I was when the drive was last copied.

[fritzi93]

I do the same: make a bootable clone, although I use WD Data Lifeguard. It complains when the target isn't a WD drive, but it performs the job anyway. Hard drives are actually relatively cheap these days. Takes me a couple of days to do a format/reinstall, get all my programs on, everything configured, etc. Not much fun.

[redwudz]

AlecWest, Just me guessing here. My HP laptop came with the recovery discs, about 6 of them. They did a good job of reinstalling all the 'crap' that I had already deleted, along with the OS. But I left the recovery partition alone for quite a while. Finally, I got tired of installing from the recovery discs, then upgrading to SP2, then removing all the useless programs it installed. I just went ahead and bought a XP SP2 OS disc, repartitioned the HD and have had no problems since.

But my recovery partition was fairly small, like 8MB, and I think it was mostly diagnostics, not the OS. I have no idea what they are doing with 14GB. That sounds like major bloatware.

I suspect they have stashed most all the OS recovery info into that partition, along with all the programs, and then cut down on the number of recovery discs to cut costs.

If you just clone the contents of the 'C' drive, you are probably not getting the OS or programs install info, just the stuff that has been installed, if that makes any sense.

I'm guessing that all this comes about to save money. If they give you a crippled OS install/recovery disc, then they likely don't have to pay MS as much for the privilege to use the XP OS. Again, just speculation.

[edong]

This is puzzling. Assuming Ghost creates an "image" of the C drive, how could there be "missing files?"

Here is another. I've used at least two different hard drive cloning softwares that came with the hard drives, still there are files that are not copied. Maybe it's my computer but it happened in at least three computers. Sometimes it works but not always. On the DVDs, maybe it is a bad burn because like I said, I was succesful using the files from the HD.

[redwudz]

It surprises me at times that a backup of a hard drive works at all. Consider that the OS has to keep track of the full address of every single file in the computer and every single link between those files, and their relationships. All it would take is for a few of those vital links or files to be on a separate partition and everything falls apart.

A hard drive also has those same files scattered in pieces throughout the HD disc platters and tracks, with a further set of links to keep them together under the same name.

Then when those backup files are put on a different drive, a whole new 'roadmap' is created to link them all back together.

I use Acronis also. It takes most of the 'pain' out of a repartition/reformat and reinstall of the OS and programs. When I used W98, that was about every 3 months.

[AlecWest]

I just went ahead and bought a XP SP2 OS disc, repartitioned the HD and have had no problems since.

Since it's still early in the game, and since I haven't really put too much "stuff" on the laptop, I'm considering the possibility of just formatting the whole enchilada and installing from an XP OEM disk from scratch. Would I even need to have a partitioned hard drive if I did this???

[ntscuser]

I just went ahead and bought a XP SP2 OS disc, repartitioned the HD and have had no problems since.

Since it's still early in the game, and since I haven't really put too much "stuff" on the laptop, I'm considering the possibility of just formatting the whole enchilada and installing from an XP OEM disk from scratch. Would I even need to have a partitioned hard drive if I did this???

That would depend on whose OEM version of XP you chose. If it's a HP version it will not only recreate a recovery partition, it will reinstall all the crapware you spent months trying to get rid of!

Bear in mind too that HP's version is the only one which contains all the drivers you need for your particular machine

[redwudz]

Would I even need to have a partitioned hard drive if I did this???

As mentioned, probably depends on the type of restore discs. Some may do a full restore, including partitioning your hard drive with a restore partition. Some may just use the existing restore partition to restore from.

If you delete the restore partition, there may be no going back, at least with your restore discs. I would see if it can be backed up somewhere, or like me, never plan on going back. If that's the case, delete all partitions, and repartition to just one before installing XP. Or you can leave the partition in place if you don't need the HD space and install a regular version of XP in the large partition. You can always delete that restore partition later, as long as everything works properly from the new XP partition.

Drivers have never been an issue. I downloaded them from HP, burned to disc and load them in after the OS is installed.

[AlecWest]

Thanks to everyone for your sage advice.

Drivers have never been an issue. I downloaded them from HP, burned to disc and load them in after the OS is installed.

OK, I think I've settled on a plan of action:

Step One: Buy a new (and larger) hard drive.

Step Two: Swap out the current hard drive with all files intact, putting it in a safe place.

Step Three: Buy a generic XP OEM disk and install it on one partition ... as well as the driver files I'll download from HP.

Step Four: Cross fingers.

Actually, the "safe place" I'd put the hard drive is probably right back in the machine since my Pavillion can hold two hard drives. If everything works out OK with the new setup, I can just format out the old HD and use it for general storage.

[ntscuser]

Actually, the "safe place" I'd put the hard drive is probably right back in the machine since my Pavillion can hold two hard drives. If everything works out OK with the new setup, I can just format out the old HD and use it for general storage.

No don't. I did that once and accidentally formatted the wrong drive with disastrous consequences It is very easily done. Since then I've always physically removed the backup drive from the PC.

[AlecWest]

Actually, the "safe place" I'd put the hard drive is probably right back in the machine since my Pavillion can hold two hard drives. If everything works out OK with the new setup, I can just format out the old HD and use it for general storage.

No don't. I did that once and accidentally formatted the wrong drive with disastrous consequences It is very easily done. Since then I've always physically removed the backup drive from the PC.

Thanks, but the beauty of my current situation is that my laptop is brand new ... and I haven't had enough time to put "vital" things on it yet. The only major work I've done on my laptop was to remove as much of the bloatware as I could find (grin) ... an especially daunting task when it came down to removing (arghhh) Vongo . And, with a clean install of generic XP on a blank HD, the bloatware won't be an issue anymore.

On my desktop computer, I'll download all the HP drivers needed ... so that when my new laptop HD arrives, I could actually format BOTH drives and pick/choose which one I'd want as the main drive. But, I'll save the info/data on the current drive ... putting it back in only after the new drive is up and running. I doubt I'd accidentally format the wrong drive ... but, if I did, it wouldn't be a great loss.

[redwudz]

Sounds like a good plan. I wish my HP laptop would hold 2 drives. But I mostly use it for net surfing and do all my video work on a desktop PC.

I did once partition and format the wrong drive in a desktop PC. After that I usually unplugged all drives except the target drive. In my case, all the drives were the same size, make and model, so about impossible to tell them apart.

[AlecWest]

One final (but possibly important) question. My Pavillion came with Windows XP Media Center Edition installed. Are the HP drivers I'd download specifically designed to work with MCE ... or could I get away with a generic XP Home or XP Pro installation?

[redwudz]

Good question. The only real difference I have seen between MCE and XP setups is the video card. In a XP desktop PC with a Hauppauge 150 MCE card, I had problems, mostly with capture. Neither the MCE driver or the XP driver would work properly. Exchanged it for a XP 150 card and all was fine.

I would check HPs site for your laptop drivers and then see if you can find a similar laptop there with the XP drivers to check for differences. Most likely the generic XP driver for your video card would work, but the MCE functions may not. It may depend on how the MCE video card integrates with the laptop. An alternative may be to use a MCE XP OS.

A couple of places you might ask the question or look for answers:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/

http://www.hpnotebookforums.com/

[AlecWest]

An alternative may be to use a MCE XP OS.

True ... and there are 3 storefronts out there still selling the 3-disk OEM version (the storefronts I could find easily, there may be others).

Because I'm getting a bare-bones (no OS) desktop from a builder later this year, I was going to buy an XP Home OEM for it now. I think I'll go ahead and do that and attempt to see if the laptop is copasetic with it. If so, I'll activate it ... and buy a 2nd XP Home OEM for the desktop I'll buy later. I'm thinking of giving my current desktop (with XP Home OEM already installed) to a local service agency ... after I delete all the dirty pictures.

Of course, if the Pavillion coughs at XP Home, I can leave it unactivated ... installing it on the desktop I'll buy later ... and get the XP Media Center OEM disks.

[AlecWest]

Update - Apparently, Windows XP Home (or standard Pro version) can be installed on my Pavillion after I remove XP MCE version. However, I did have to buy an external floppy drive. Fortunately, they're cheap.

On Pavillions, SATA/RAID drivers can only be put on floppy disks ... not because of an HP limitation, but because of a WinXP limitation (now that floppy drives are pretty much obsolete). When you have a blank formatted SATA hard drive, WinXP installations will present users with 3 blue screens:

Screen 1) - Prompts users to press the F6 key to install a 3rd party driver.

Screen 2) - Tells users it doesn't recognize what's currently there - asking that users press the "S" key to specify the device type.

Screen 3) - "Specifically" looks for a disk in (sigh) "Drive A." I suspect the reason XP's developers didn't bother to make this screen give a "choice" of drives is because they anticipated SATA/RAID support in Vista ... hoping to give computer users just one more reason to upgrade.

So, it can be done. However, as mentioned earlier, Ghost is not enough to back up any installation. Pavillions can only handle SATA drives. And every time I install a new one in the future (hopefully not that often), I'll need my XP Home OEM disk, a drivers CD (downloaded from HP already), and a single floppy disk for SATA recognition drivers. Only after such a complete installation will Ghost restore an image.

P.S. I'm beginning to understand now why HP and other notebook sellers only give customers a set of "recovery" disks (as opposed to an OEM). The recovery disks are a "crippled" version of the "real" installation disks used at the factory ... and neither the recovery disks nor an OEM will, by themselves, do an installation "from scratch." But (ahem), HP does sell the disks that will. Hehe, it reminds me of the first time I bought a car that didn't have a "real" spare tire ... just a doughnut tire that would get you by until you could visit the dealer and buy a new tire.

P.P.S. Earlier today, I went to Walgreens and bought a box of 3.5" floppies. A young cashier behind the counter rolled his eyes and I said, "I'm an antique collector."