Viewing illegal acts on videos - what do you do?

[jlietz]

I know that many of us here do video transfers on a professional or semi-professional basis. I'm wondering if anyone has ever seen illegal activity on the videotapes they have been given to transfer, and if so, what did you do about it. I ask because I have recently seen something that I believe to be illegal (bear-baiting), but the tape is from the 80's so it would not be worth reporting. Just wondering if anyone else has been in a similar (or worse) situation.

[Abond]

I ask because I have recently seen something that I believe to be illegal (bear-baiting)

Why you believe it is illegal? And in what sense it could be illegal?

[jlietz]

Bear-baiting, as in chaining a bear to a stake and letting loose successive waves of dogs until the bear either wears out or the "fight" is stopped. Not as in placing bait in the woods and waiting for the bear to come around so you can shoot it.

[rhegedus]

I'd report it, no matter how old the tape.

[thecoalman]

Not as in placing bait in the woods and waiting for the bear to come around so you can shoot it.

I know it's illegal to bait most game here in PA, as far as your poll for myself it would depend on the severeity of the act and other factors like from your example when it took place. I wouldn't report it, most likely nothing is going to come of it except your gonna piss some guy off.

[Epicurus8a]

Do what your conscience tells you to do. If I had the tape, I'd report it ASAP.

[TBoneit]

20 year old tape and you probably don't know who did it?

Statute of limitations applies?

Customer rides up on a Hog and wears Hells Angels jacket?

Worried about it being a form of entrapment?

Or just return the tape with a new tape attached and say I'm really sorry the machine never ate a tape before so I'm not charging you for the damage to my machine caused by your tape and as a goodwill gesture I'm replacing it with a new tape.
You do have customers sign a release form so that if something gets damaged you are off the hook?
or?

Maybe Adam will drop by and comment.

[lordsmurf]

You guys remind me of busy-bodies.

Unless it was something truly awful (rape, murder, child molestation, etc), then the most I'd do is send the tape back with their payments (sans return shipping costs) and tell them due to the nature of the content, I cannot accept their project. Sorry for the inconvenience, but please find somebody else for this.

You don't seem to realize the can of worms you'd open by reporting the video. All I can say is I hope you have a lot of free time, as you'll be involved with it for years. It also assumes your customer is sane, and doesn't try to come after you.

You need to think about this carefully before acting.

[adam]

If you witness a crime you report it. If you have evidence of a crime than you hand it over to the authorities. Let them worry about statute of limitations and what to charge the person with. If nothing comes of it fine, but don't just ignore it.

I work in the DA's office now and just in the short time that I have been there, there have been about three cases that were filed only after old (10-20yr) evidence came to light. It's usually an old video tape that surfaces like this.

Felonies can have very long statute of limitations and they can be tolled while the person is living outside of the state where the crime was committed. Even a tape from the eighties can be used to convict someone. Even if the statute of limitations has run on all relevant crimes, acts like this can still be used during the punishment phase of any other trial against that individual.

[Chopmeister]

I'm with Lordsmurf on this one. Unless it was something truly awful, or something I really disapproved of, I wouldn't make it my issue. There are a lot of things that are illegal. Some of them (e.g., jaywalking, and some of those absurd hangovers about sexual morality that haven't been prosecuted in 50 years but are still technically on the books in some places, perfectly travelling a couple of Mph over the speed limit) aren't worth worring about. Others (e.g., breaking DRM so that I can transfer video to a portable player) are things I positively approve of. A video of none of these would cause me to report them. Unless the offence is fairly compellyng, sticky-beaks should just mind their own business.

[adam]

Chopmeister, I think its pretty clear we aren't talking about Class C Misdemeanors here. (tickets.)

[mikel]

Anyone who would want to "relive" a moment like that from the past.....
....would not get my help.

[HolyGeez]

Someone needs to F'N report SWAP.AVI to the government. Everyone involved with that film should be buried in the ground.

[Cornucopia]

My wife (a forensic psychologist) suggested that regardless of how you decide to resolve this on this particular case, it would make sense to add some clauses to your project application forms/contracts that state your position on certain content and reporting responsibilities. If it's up front and they still give it to you, they know what they're getting into and you're covered.

Scott

[rhegedus]

Unless it was something truly awful (rape, murder, child molestation, etc), then the most I'd do is send the tape back with their payments (sans return shipping costs) and tell them due to the nature of the content, I cannot accept their project.

Whose definition of awful are we going by?

You don't seem to realize the can of worms you'd open by reporting the video.

Such as?

Give the cops the tape - it's their ball game now.

You need to think about this carefully before acting.

You mean, "don't report it"?

Why?

[jlietz]

Wow! Interesting responses. Although the purpose of my initial post wasn't to seek advice on what I should do (I was really more interested in what others have done in similar situations...), I appreciate the replies.

As far as reporting this incident, I'm really not quite sure what I'll do. However, when a client places an order at my website they must agree to the terms and conditions, which states that "[My company] expressly reserves the right to report any material that may violate local, state, or federal law to the appropriate authorities." So I think I'm covered there.

Fulfilling the order is another matter. Unless the client can persuade me that what is on the tape isn't what I think it is, then at a minimum, the order won't be fulfilled and they will be asked to refrain from using my services again.

So, before making any decisions, any hunters out there know of any legitimate reason why a bear would be chained up while successive waves of dogs are let loose? Is there some kind of "bear hunting" dog training that could look similar to this?

[rhegedus]

So, before making any decisions, any hunters out there know of any legitimate reason why a bear would be chained up while successive waves of dogs are let loose? Is there some kind of "bear hunting" dog training that could look similar to this?

Irrelevant really - if the bear is distressed then it is covered by animal cruelty laws.

[cal_tony]

How can this be? I agree 100% with Lordsmurf. While at the same time I agree 100% with Adam. There is the moral answer and the practical answer. Nothing easy here.

[lordsmurf]

Rhegedus, you're British. You have no idea how fucked up the U.S. legal system is. It's never as simple as calling the cops and walking away. You're now involved and are an integral part of their case from here on out. If you get involved now, you'll be involved forever.

[rhegedus]

And the problem is?

[lordsmurf]

I'm dumbfounded that you're not seeing the obvious negatives to this situation.

Some people have their own full lives to live. They neither need nor want need to get involved in the lives of others or be a pawn of the court system. Your time will be sucked up by something like this and it could affect your career (especially for the self-employed), your time with hobbies/family, relationships, etc.

It's not as simple as picking up a phone, reporting something, and leaving. If only it were that easy.

If you truly want to get involved, make this part of your life for the foreseeable future, by all means get involved. But just realize what you're getting yourself into. If you think it takes no more than a 5-minute phone call, you're divorced from reality.

[adam]

That's not true at all lordsmurf. If you turn over evidence to the police than there is very very little that you ever need to do beyond that. Most cases plead anyway. If you are talking about cases where there is evidence caught on film, hell that would almost never go to trial. If it did go to trial than you would have to testify, yes. There is virtually nothing for you to say since you are there for nothing more than to prove chain of custody. Witnesses like this are on the stand for 10 or 15 mins tops. Counties reimburse for traveling expenses and your employer cannot penalize you for missing work. All together its about an hour out of your life.

We recently had a sexual assault of a child case where someone found a videocassette of the whole incident in a cupboard of a house that they moved into. The tape had been there for 7 years. They turned it over to the authorities. About 2 years later it went to trial. That witness was literally on the stand for 2 mins. The prosecution asked about five simple, yes or no, predicate questions. Cue tape. The defense asked no questions and the witness was free to go.

Now if you are an eyewitness to a crime than you will be much more involved in the process, as well you should be. You'll be interviewed by police and possibly the DA's office later, and you'll be on the stand much longer if called to testify. But avoiding this because you don't want to waste your time would be really sad, and in many cases illegal.

[rhegedus]

I'm dumbfounded that you're not seeing the obvious negatives to this situation.

Some people have their own full lives to live. They neither need nor want need to get involved in the lives of others or be a pawn of the court system. Your time will be sucked up by something like this and it could affect your career (especially for the self-employed), your time with hobbies/family, relationships, etc.

It's not as simple as picking up a phone, reporting something, and leaving. If only it were that easy.

If you truly want to get involved, make this part of your life for the foreseeable future, by all means get involved. But just realize what you're getting yourself into. If you think it takes no more than a 5-minute phone call, you're divorced from reality.

By that reasoning, no one should ever be a witness.

Criminals will walk free because good people were advised to look away....

[thecoalman]

any hunters out there know of any legitimate reason why a bear would be chained up while successive waves of dogs are let loose? Is there some kind of "bear hunting" dog training that could look similar to this?

Absolutely not, dogs are not used to hunt bears in any way as far as I know. The only legitimate use for dogs in hunting that I'm ware of is for bird hunting, in that capacity they are used to flush the game and/or retrieve it.

Counties reimburse for traveling expenses and your employer cannot penalize you for missing work. All together its about an hour out of your life

Come on... an hour? I don't agree with LS's it's going to consume your life but it's going to be more than hour. As I said above due the time lapse between the incident most likely nothing is going to come of this. This IMO is a trivial incident, I don't condone it and most hunters would tell you the same thing but in the grand scheme of things it's not that important. In the end the only thing you're going to do is piss some guy off that most likely owns weapons and probably doesn't have all cylinders firing to begin with if he's participating in something like this. It's not worth it.

[adam]

Come on... an hour? I don't agree with LS's it's going to consume your life but it's going to be more than hour.

If you just turned in evidence like a video tape or photo or something of the like, than yes I don't see any reason why it would take you more than an hour. You can hand deliver or mail the item to your local police. If it goes to trial, which rarely happens, than you would testify as to where you found it and that you turned it over to the police. You don't know anything else so that is the extent of your involvement. A chain of custody witness is just a formality. You show up, answer the predicate questions to get the item into evidence, and then you are released.

[acid_burn]

The notion you're giving your life up to report a crime is absurd.

In many cases you won't even have to give your name if you don't want to.

Law Enforcement has made it very easy to cooperate with them. Tip Lines. CrimeStopper. Neighborhood Patrol. Just to name a few.

If you really believe the crap LS is spewing, call a detective from a pay phone. Give them the gist. Ask them what would be expected of you should you come forward. Simple as that.

[Cornucopia]

[soapbox]
To follow one's conscience/morals/ethics doesn't always mean taking the easiest road. It often means taking the hard road. But hard decisions like these need to be made (toward the moral), or there could be lots of "relativizing" going on which will end up hurting more and more people (or bears).
[/soapbox]

Yeah, I know that was a little sappy. I'm a sap.

Scott

[lumis]

Cornucopia is right. If you think it's wrong, something really bad, then you should report it.

[acid_burn]

I think that Cornu is right, also, but it just so happens that this is a case where what is RIGHT actually lines up with what is EASY.

In most states you can drop off an infant at the police station, no questions asked. I'm pretty certain that you'd have no trouble dropping off a fricken VIDEO TAPE.

[Jeff_NJ]

Very disturbing. I'm amazed that a couple people don't see it as that. I would definitely hand the tape over to the authorities.

Jeff