PAL to NTSC conversion?? HELP!

[splunky]

I have a 3 part movie that is an PAL SVCD with the extension .mpg. I would like to convert it to NTSC SVCD and then trick my sony into thinking it is a VCD. I have already figured out the tricking the dvd part. Now I realized it is PAL not NTSC duh!! lol Please help. Thanx in advance.

[Yury Perschin]

Use TMPGEnc with install mpeg2dec.dll for reading mpeg2 (SVCD) and choose any template for NTSC (VCD, SVCD).
With kind regards Yury.

[splunky]

Your a stud thanx again.

[MattO]

I am having a similar issue, but it is with the file size. The 3 part SVCD looks like it is encoded as a 2500kbps PAL SVCD, but contains 45 mins per disk. I did a straight conversion PAL-->NTSC and the file size ended up being over 900MB. Am I missing something?

[Gargoyle]

Matt0 -
I think that reason is the additional frames/sec for NTSC:
PAL is 25 FPS, NTSC is 29.97 FPS.
Doing a little math, this means that a 45 min. video = 67.5K frames for PAL, and 81K frames for NTSC.
More frames = bigger file size.
Let me guess..... was the original (PAL) MPEG file about 750 Meg?

[Gargoyle]

Double post- nevermind

[MattO]

Any suggestions as to what I can do?

[banjazzer]

To convert PAL to NTSC is crazy. You can correct the aspect ratio, but you will never correct the framerate difference. If you are happy with the introduced jerkiness, then fine. Most DVD players and all PCs can play PAL as well as NTSC. If you insist on doing this abomination, then go from PAL to NTSC(film) as the effects are less noticeable.

[Spock]

One last comment on the size difference - NTSC does have ~5 more frames per second so it would stand to reason that the file size would be larger but that is not always the case. In most circumstances the file size is nearly identical due to the differing pixel ratios of the standards (i.e. 480x576 for PAL, 480x480 for NTSC). The difference in the number of pixels usually makes up for the frame rate difference nicely. Result - fairly equal file sizes.

I do agree with banjazzer, however, on the jerkiness. You are better off removing frames than ever trying to add them back.

[Gargoyle]

You can try to encode use VBR instead of CBR... use the bitrate caculator:
http://vcdhelp.com/calc.htm
to see what the average and maximum bitrates are for the length (in minutes) for the CD you are going to use.

[t0nito]

One last comment on the size difference - NTSC does have ~5 more frames per second so it would stand to reason that the file size would be larger but that is not always the case. In most circumstances the file size is nearly identical due to the differing pixel ratios of the standards (i.e. 480x576 for PAL, 480x480 for NTSC). The difference in the number of pixels usually makes up for the frame rate difference nicely. Result - fairly equal file sizes.

I do agree with banjazzer, however, on the jerkiness. You are better off removing frames than ever trying to add them back.

I agree but actually both files would be exactly the same size because ntsc has 1.2% more fps than pal but pal frame size is also 1.2% bigger than ntsc.

NTSC 720x480
480*1.2= 576
PAL 720x480

PAL 25fps
25*1.2=30
NTSC 30fps (29.976) but that was since colour arrived originaly NTSC was exactly 30fps.

BUT if you choose NTSC film file size will be 1.2 % smaller because of the frame size. Even though it's 23.976 fps the movie will be longer. At least this is what you are suposed to do if you want the movie to play smootly.

To Splunky

Here is something you should do to convert your file to NTSC using ReStream.

1.Demultiplex your PAL file to a m2v and a mp2 file.
2.Open your m2v file in restream
3.Change the frame size from ***x576 to ***x480
4.Change frame rate from 25 to 23.976 fps
5.Click on write.
6.Open the mp2 file with a sound editor capable of changing the audio's speed (You may have to convert to wav first)
7. Slow the audio speed by 4.096% Save the file. (If you had to convert to wav you have to reencode to mp2)
8.Remultiplex the new m2v file with the mp2 file.

Presto! A new NTSC Film file with smooth motion.

You DVD player should do the 3:2 pulldown.

[t0nito]

Oops now I feel really really stupid. Forget this. I was writing this theoretically but I've made now a little test and it doesn't work. sorry.

But I have anothe Idea that works but you would have to convert it back to avi and then reencode.

1. convert to avi
2.Open with virtualdub and click on video/frame rate change to... 23.976 fps
3 click on filters/add/resize resize to 480x480 make sure to choose bicubic A=1.00 to have best results.
4. Save to a new avi or frameserv to Tmpgenc.
5. You still have to do the audio part on my last reply.
5.On tmpenc choose the NTSCfilm template on settings choose 3:2 pulldown on the encode mode.
6.In audio open the changed mp2 and reencode. This way you won't have any jidder effects and it will look better

[sonoma]

why not just open the pal in dvd2avi, save as project, dvd2avi writes out the audio, open tmpgenc, use the d2v from dvd2avi for video, use the audio for audio, go.
remember to use ntsc film as your output format.(and do not frame rate convert)

nobrainer.

[SingSing]

Why convert at the first place !
Stand alone player and computer play both PAL and NTSC.
The few scan lines you miss is really burried at the edge of the TV.
Nobody notice them.

[sonoma]

my pioneer 440 will not play pal's (go figure, it's a really nice player)

[SLK001]

Most DVD players can play PAL. However, in the US, virtually NO TVs will play the output PAL video (you end up with a continually rolling picture). As for jerkiness, I have been doing some testing, and here's what I have come up with to eliminate (or mostly, below visual perception).

1) Take PAL DVD, and run DVD2AVI.
2) Set a FRAMESERVE script to contain:
mpegsource=("myfile.d2v")
bob()
selectframe(10,0,1,3,5,6,8)
resize to 720x480
2) FRAMESERVE to converting program of choice.

What BOB() does is create 50 frames from the original 25 by interpolating each frame to a complete field. The SELECTFRAME(10,0,1,3,5,6,8) drops 4 frames out of 10 (since we want to end up with 30 fps. In this case, it keeps the 0,1,3,5,6 and 8th frames. BOB() has its drawbacks, but the jerkiness with the DOUBLEWEAVE() seems to go away. One final step is that another frame has to be dropped every 1001 frames to get to 29.97fps. This is usually done with a DROP FRAME FLAG. I am hopeing that just changing the framerate from 30 to 29.97fps will enable this. If this doesn't work, then audio will slowly get out of sync.
Note that this is still in the early experimental stage, so no fair flaming this technique.

[lemmy999]

why not just open the pal in dvd2avi, save as project, dvd2avi writes out the audio, open tmpgenc, use the d2v from dvd2avi for video, use the audio for audio, go.
remember to use ntsc film as your output format.(and do not frame rate convert)

nobrainer.

I with you sonoma, I don't haven't tried this, but it seems like the easiest method to me.

I don't know why anyone would convert 25fps to 29.97fps. This not only makes the video jerky, but wastes space. If you are converting to anything, convert to 24fps. Many of use spend lots of time and trouble to get our 29.97fps captures to 24fps (inverse telecine) for making SVCDs higher quality with the same space. 24fps is where you want to be!

[lemmy999]

To convert PAL to NTSC is crazy. You can correct the aspect ratio, but you will never correct the framerate difference. If you are happy with the introduced jerkiness, then fine. Most DVD players and all PCs can play PAL as well as NTSC. If you insist on doing this abomination, then go from PAL to NTSC(film) as the effects are less noticeable.

I have an APEX that can play PAL, but my pioneer 343 does not. I was under the impression that most DVD players in the US could not play PAL. Can you give me some example of non-chinese DVD players sold in the US that do play PAL and output a 29.97fps video that the NTSC tv will display correctly?

[banjazzer]

Afraid not. I'm in the UK, and players here generally available seem to be able to play NTSC and PAL. What's wrong with Chinese players BTW? My reckoning is that the best player in the US is the Apex, and the best player in the UK is the Cyberhome. Probably both made in China, or somewhere close. 8)

[t0nito]

I have an APEX that can play PAL, but my pioneer 343 does not. I was under the impression that most DVD players in the US could not play PAL. Can you give me some example of non-chinese DVD players sold in the US that do play PAL and output a 29.97fps video that the NTSC tv will display correctly?

I've seen before a catalog and it had a samsung dvd player that had an internal starndards converter. This may be the player for you.

[banjazzer]

I can't give you an example of any player sold in the US, because I'm not in the US. I would guess the DVD Players section of this site might be some help! What's the problem with Chinese players BTW? Most of the best hardware I have is Chinese, and probably 99% of my PC. And soon everything will be Chinese. 8)

[lemmy999]

I have a chinese player and like it fine. My best player on my best TV will not play PAL DVDs.

[jjalil]

I have a mmovie that has part in PAL and parts NTSC, what can I do to convert fully to NTSC with out loosing any parts or being out of synch