Pioneer uses used HDD in non-warranty repair?

[jjmdtw]

I sent my DVR-533 to Pioneer to have the HDD replaced. This annoyed me because I wasn't able to fix it myself due to it being impossible to get a firmware disk. I tried the firmware files from pioneerfaq.info with no luck.

So, I get the unit back and notice there is cosmetic damage on the side. Looks like a solvent removed the silver paint from the plastic front panel. I'm picky and this pisses me off.

Before even turning it on, I open the unit to copy the firmware from the drive in case this one fails. I copied it to another HDD and everything worked. (Anyone need Region 1 firmware for this unit?)

I put the original HDD back in. I notice that the word "good" is written on the drive's white label in red marker. It also looks like something else was written on it, but was removed with a cleaning fluid. Hmmm. There's residue very near the edge of the silver tape, almost as if this HDD was removed from another DVR that uses similar type of tape.

Something was used to clean off the marker, perhaps the same stuff that blemished the paint on the side? I tried decoding the hard drive date code, but it wasn't obvious. The original was a WD, this one is (thankfully) a Seagate of the same size.

Comments? I could understand using a used part in a warranty repair; this is common. But a non-warranty repair I paid for? Pioneer is going to get an earful from me about this in the near future. And I will no longer consider Pioneer products.

[dun4cheap]

You certainly have a right to be upset if they did not disclose that they may used parts. I would give them a call. I do think seagate is better than wd...

[Frobozz]

I'd be furious about this. I've read some people convinced Pioneer to swap their 533's for new 640's because of the troubled TVGOS. I'd demand a new unit if I was you because yours is physically damaged by them.

[jjmdtw]

I should also add that the HDD failed about 1.5 months past warranty. It was not used heavily, or power cycled excessively or anything like that. I pushed for a warranty repair but they wanted nothing to do with it.

[nixie]

What approach did you use to copy the firmware? I'm interested in case I need to do this too.

[trhouse]

http://www.pioneerfaq.info/english/dvr630.php?player=DVR-630H&question=replace_hdd

[LCSHG]

trhouse

Don't have a Pioneer . !!! But for Info
I noticed a number of posts have indicated a need for a [code] if replacing the HDD
Why is a firmware needed or is that the code. It was brought up a number of times that Pioneer was a real pain on thus issue.
Have they thrown in the towel on this.
Does the Pioneer require a special prociedure in replacing the HDD or DVD drives as indicated


An observation!!!
I notice on the site you gave, is this warning
--------------------------------------
"!IMPORTENT!

As soon as you start manipulating with your DVR, your warranty is voided!! All is done at your own risk.
--------------------------------------

When dealing with mfg. like Segate they know by the serial nuimbers if a drive was used in a vendors unit and will refer you back to them for warranty. This was I presume to counter the large number of returned HDD that were not defective.

If the waning is to be taken seriously. Pioneer is saying [Send it to us for in waranty repair or you are on your Own]
I guess that would also go for out of warranty service,
What if Segate or another said [as they have] Go to your vender
This after you have removed the HDD

[trhouse]

The author of this thread refers to the code on the hdd as firmware but I do not call it that. As some examples, I call firmware that resides in flash memory which can be updated in dvd-writers or the BIOS of a PC. Code on the hdd I just call code or software.

Pioneer chose to put the TV Guide and timer functions for its hdd recorders as code or software on the hdd instead of putting it in firmware. For this reason, this code has to be copied to a new hdd to restore these functions. It is not absolutely necessary to do this. A replacement hdd will work fine but there will be no TV Guide or timer functions.

There seem to be two reasons for an hdd replacement. The hdd went bad or the hdd is being upgraded to a larger hdd. I can only speak for myself but I wanted a 500 GB hdd in my 531H. I do not believe Pioneer would agree to do that for me in or out of warranty. I waited until my unit was out of warranty and gave it a try. It took about three hours to do it given the tools available at the time. This was actual installation time. It did not include the time to get a special remote ( I used a Philips Pronto with a file downloaded from the web to recreate the remote needed ), a disk needed to install a new drive, and Linux ( its free ) installed on my computer.

The disk and remote are needed to install a CPRM ID in the new drive. This CPRM ID is written on the back of the recorder. Warning: if you ever remove a good hdd from a Pioneer, the CPRM ID will be lost and the disk and remote are needed to reinstall it. I found out first hand. I removed my good drive, plugged it back in and got "hdd err".

Once I had the tools, it took three hours to install because, at the time, the only way to get the TV Guide and timer functions back was to copy the entire old 80 GB hdd to a new hdd.

Corona had posted that he had a good hdd but the TV Guide and timer code was corrupted on his hdd. We started to work together to isolate the code for the TV Guide and timers from my good hdd. That resulted in the code called Pioneer4.zip on the Pioneerfaq.info site.

Once we had that code, we both realized that it was no longer necessary to copy the entire 80 GB hdd to a new drive but just the four MB file that is Pioneer4. Now I can install a new drive to the Pioneer in about 15 minutes if I do it slowly.

One scary moment I had was that someone posted the special remote code for the Philips Pronto on this site but it was no good. The code had the number "9" not working. Just my luck my CPRM ID had two "9"s" in it. Mark Venture posted a link to code for the Philips that worked.

[nixie]

Thanks for that detailed post, trhouse.

Which version of Linux did you use? Was it a dual boot setup such as Windows and Linux?

[trhouse]

I tried Ubuntu, but Corona was using Knoppix. I found that Knoppix required less effort and switched. It was not dual boot. I had a spare hdd. I unplugged my normal drive and installed the spare and installed Knoppix to it.

[LCSHG]

trhouse

Thanks
Your post laid it out very will and I have saved it in my files

I am using LiteOn/ilo units and the process is simpler but I felt the Pionner is a good unit and wanted some info on it.

Thanks Again

In the post you gave I noticed a thanks to a TRHOUSE, can I assume thats you

[jjmdtw]

The author of this thread refers to the code on the hdd as firmware but I do not call that. As some examples, I call firmware what resides in flash memory which can be updated in dvd-writers or the BIOS of a PC. Code on the hdd I just call code or software.

I also thought it was weird that so many people referred to code on the HDD as firmware. Probably because Pioneer calls the disk that loads this a "firmware disc". But yes, firmware is generally code that is in non-volatile memory, at least in the electronics industry.

[LCSHG]

jjmdtw

Quote
"Comments? I could understand using a used part in a warranty repair; this is common. But a non-warranty repair I paid for? Pioneer is going to get an earful from me about this in the near future. And I will no longer consider Pioneer products".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you pay for the HDD itself or for its replacement
Segate does warrent thier drives for 5 years. I'ts standard practice to supply a refurbished one of equal or greater value and capacity
Pioneer makes a good product. If the drive itself was charged, I'd call them on it

[InXess]

TRHOUSE, for the benefit of others you should post a detailed description of all the steps you have taken. There's an army of users interested in Pioneer "how-to's". Fortunately I don't belong there (LG DVDRec) but this is interesting.

[paulw]

Just out of interest. What did the repare cost to get done..

[trhouse]

In the post you gave I noticed a thanks to a TRHOUSE, can I assume thats you

for the benefit of others you should post a detailed description of all the steps you have taken

Yes, I provided the pioneer4.zip file containing the TV Guide and timer functions for the site owner, Hakan, to archive. I also provided the procedure for how to extract that code from a good hdd. Corona provided the procedure for installing the pioneer4.zip file in a new drive.

We did not come up with the original procedure for installing a new hdd in the Pioneer. That work was done by others. Corona and I were just trying to get the good code from my working hdd over to his hdd with the corrupted code when we realized that once we had the pioneer4.zip file, it could considerably shorten the time it took to install a new hdd in the Pioneer.

We agreed to offer all our work to Hakan to archive for the benefit of others. Hakan provided me with the disk needed for doing the upgrade. For those who have a corrupted hdd or want to replace or upgrade a hdd; they can install pioneer4 now instead of copying the entire 80 GB hdd to a new hdd which is what I did the first time and it took two hours. Pioneer4 installs in less than a second.

It was a bit of a surprise that over 1,000 people have downloaded pioneer4.zip. It never occured to me that non-Pioneer owners would be interested in all this.

[jjmdtw]

jjmdtw

Quote
"Comments? I could understand using a used part in a warranty repair; this is common. But a non-warranty repair I paid for? Pioneer is going to get an earful from me about this in the near future. And I will no longer consider Pioneer products".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you pay for the HDD itself or for its replacement
Segate does warrent thier drives for 5 years. I'ts standard practice to supply a refurbished one of equal or greater value and capacity
Pioneer makes a good product. If the drive itself was charged, I'd call them on it

The original was a WD which I believe is one year warranty. As for someone elses question, the total charge was $135, which includes everything including shipping back to me.

[KTH]

jjmdtw,
How did you go about backing up your HDD then restoring it on a new drive? What imaging software did you use? Trhouse mentioned that his Pioneer 531H gives a HDD error message after which you will need the service disc & remote to get it working again. It seems like newer models like your 533 & my 640 can be unplugged and replugged in after disconnecting power to the unit. In fact I unplugged my 640 then disconnected the HDD. I then reconnected it again and it worked alright. It was only after I tried installing a new drive using the service remote and wrong service disc did my unit stop working. After which I had to send the unit to Pioneer to get it working again. I was lucky that they did not charge me to do this. Changing the HDD on the 640 without the service remote and the correct service disc might be possible since until recently Pioneer was selling a replacement HDD on their web site for the 640 for $200.00 + dollars. This would indicate that the drive might be user changable as long as the proper software is installed on it beforehand. There has been some discussion on this at the AVS Forum, but it seems except for you no one has tried this yet.

[trhouse]

Changing the 640 hdd is described in the link on this page below the title "2006 models and above".

http://www.pioneerfaq.info/english/dvr630.php?player=DVR-630H&question=replace_hdd

[jjmdtw]

jjmdtw,
How did you go about backing up your HDD then restoring it on a new drive? What imaging software did you use? Trhouse mentioned that his Pioneer 531H gives a HDD error message after which you will need the service disc & remote to get it working again. It seems like newer models like your 533 & my 640 can be unplugged and replugged in after disconnecting power to the unit. In fact I unplugged my 640 then disconnected the HDD. I then reconnected it again and it worked alright. It was only after I tried installing a new drive using the service remote and wrong service disc did my unit stop working. After which I had to send the unit to Pioneer to get it working again. I was lucky that they did not charge me to do this. Changing the HDD on the 640 without the service remote and the correct service disc might be possible since until recently Pioneer was selling a replacement HDD on their web site for the 640 for $200.00 + dollars. This would indicate that the drive might be user changable as long as the proper software is installed on it beforehand. There has been some discussion on this at the AVS Forum, but it seems except for you no one has tried this yet.

If you have the service remote and service disk, then you should be set. You need these two items to get the recorder to recognize and use the new drive. The service disk I used was obtained from Bittorrent; it was about a 1.8GB image to be placed on a DVD. The filename was pioneer_service.nrg if I recall correctly.

Essentially all you need from the drive is the first 4MB. You can use the UNIX "dd" command which copies data from a drive, block by block. Then you copy this block of data to the new drive. It's all outlined very well on pioneerfaq.info.

[nixie]

Putting firmware on the HD doesn't seem all that good. Seems it could get corrupted easily, even if the HD is still good. What happens if you have to re-initialize your HD in the Pioneer? Do the timer features get wiped out? I'm assuming the 4MB is on the cylinders.

[jjmdtw]

(deleted stuff)

I put the original HDD back in. I notice that the word "good" is written on the drive's white label in red marker. It also looks like something else was written on it, but was removed with a cleaning fluid. Hmmm. There's residue very near the edge of the silver tape, almost as if this HDD was removed from another DVR that uses similar type of tape.

A little update. According to the warranty area on Seagate's web site, the drive Pioneer used as a replacement ran out of warranty on July 2006, and the drive was manufactured about April 2005.

Nice.