Help with S/W packages?

[frappawotsit]

Hi guys..

I'm reasonably new to video editing, with only home movies, kids/birthdays etc as my events and family and friends as my intended audience.

However, i still want to keep the quality as best I can, within reasonable cost/time budgets.

I've read lots on this forum over the past couple of days and think that for my cost/time budget (and lack of knowledge) i've come up with two possible software setups that i'm considering and would appreciate your advice on which you think would give me the best combination of editing features, transitions, effects, titling etc and end product quality, likely to be DVD.

My camcorder is an American Panasonic PV-GS500 (NTSC) (3xCCD - MiniDV) camera if that makes a difference?

Option 1:

Transfer from Camcorder using WinDV in DV-AVI format. (straight transfer?)

Edit using Sony Vegas (in DV-AVI)

Author to DVD using Nero or straight from Vegas? (advice please)

Option 2:

Transfer from Camcorder using WinDV in DV-AVI format. (straight transfer?)

Edit using Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0 (in DV-AVI)

Author to DVD using Nero or straight from Premiere pro 2.0? (advice please)

Any other tips /advice greatly appreciated..... I have gleaned from the forum that using seperate program for each phase is the absolute best, but i don't have the time, inclination or desire to go those lengths... so am looking for the best quality i can without going to those lengths.

[Cornucopia]

If you've already got Vegas or PremierePro, you don't really need WinDV (good as it is anyway), as they have their own, very good capture modules. Assuming the rest of your system is up to snuff and no resource-robbing background processes, you should NEVER have a problem or a frame-drop with either (I know I don't).

Editing with either app should be fine.

I'm worried about your choice of encoding/authoring...

Nero is fine for burning, but I would NOT use it as my main encoding or authoring app. There are plenty better.

If you're going the Vegas route, it would make sense to get the Vegas+DVDA combo. This gives you: Vegas(editor-VeryGood), Mainconcept(MPEG2encoder-VeryGood), DVDArchitect(DVDAuthor-PrettyGood), plus as a combo bonus, SonyAC3(AC3encoder-VeryGood). That covers all the bases.

If you're going the PremierePro route, it comes with their version of the Mainconcept mpeg2 encoder (basically the same thing-VeryGood). You could get Encore, but I consider its DVDauthoring only Good/Moderate. You'd still want an AC3 encoder, but you can always make do with some of the freeware/shareware offerings for the time being. Same goes with DVD authoring.

Scott

[guns1inger]

If you want to keep the budget down, look at Sony Vegas Movie Studio. Based on Vegas, with the same encoder and a cut down DVD Architect. I would save the cash here, and spend some of the savings on a second big HDD. You will find it much easier to work across two drives, and you will quickly appreciate the extra space once you start transferring footage. DV eats 13 GB / hour of tape.

Quite a few of us who use Vegas or Premiere still use WinDV for straight DV transfer. It has almost no overhead, compared to loading up the whole of Vegas, then the capture module. I only used Vegas for transfer when I was using the pass-through on the DV camera.

I certainly would not author or encode with Nero. Awful choice. Both Vegas and Premiere use the Mainconcept encoder, which produces far superior output to anything Nero can do. If you then use nero to author there is a very high probability that it will re-encode you footage, whether it needs to or not, causing un-necessary loss of quality.

Author with DVD Architect or almost anything else but Nero, then burn with imgburn 2. Yes, you can burn with Nero, but why would you ?

[frappawotsit]

Thanks for that... ok, so i'm almost there... but not quite.....

WinDv for transfer
Sony Vegas for editing & to encode (is Vegas better than Premiere Pro 2.0?)

but can i then use Sony Vegas to author to DVD?

Will using Imgbrn2 be significantly better than authoring with vegas then?

Just trying to keep things reasonably simple?

[frappawotsit]

one other thing....

What are the main differences between Vegas and Premiere Pro 2?

Like everyone i guess, i'm trying to balance across the following main factors..... to achieve best value for money.

Quality?
Ease of Use?
Editing features - transitions / effects etc
Cost?

Although Quality, Features and Ease of use are probably the main factors for me.

[guns1inger]

Quality : No difference. Both are capable of producing very high quality results, or complete crap.

Ease of use : Up to the user. I prefer Vegas's working model, some prefer Premiere. Too subjective to answer.

Features : Both have a long list of effects and transitions. Premiere probably has greater support in the third party arena, but it really depends on what you are looking for. For the most part, the transitions and effects in both are cheesy and not something you need most of the time. I believe Vegas has much strong colour correction tools and much better audio capabilities.

If you are looking for filters to clean up footage and repair strange errors and issues then the answer lies outside the main packages in software like avisynth. There is no single package that does it all.

Vegas does not author. That is what the Vegas + DVD package is for. It bundles DVD Architect, as well as the mpeg-2 and AC3 encoding licenses, into a single bundle.

Imgburn 2 does not author. It burns DVDs. And it does it very well.

So the process would be :

WinDV : Tranfser video to PC

Vegas/Premiere : Edit footage and render to mpeg 2

DVD Architect/? : Author for DVD (create menus, add chapters etc)

Imgburn 2 : burn to DVD

[frappawotsit]

Thats a fantastic response, thank you very much for all of your help...

I've now decided to try your recommendation.... funds permitting

Wish me luck!!!!

thanks again, you've cleared up an awful lot for me....

[guns1inger]

I still think you should look seriously at Vegas Movie Studio. I think it will be a better fit for what you want to do.

[frappawotsit]

I still think you should look seriously at Vegas Movie Studio. I think it will be a better fit for what you want to do.

I'm slightly confused... how would Vegas Movie Studio be better than the full Vegas program?

I thought the "movie studio" version was a cut down of the full package?

Or is it that the full version is maybe too powerful (= complicated) for my rather basic needs?

The HDD space isn't a problem, i currently have appx 80Gb Free plus an external 320Gb HDD also. All the editing I do is max of 1hour (basically 1 camcorder tape) so my 13Gb or so, per creation should last me a fair while yet...

Thanks, your advice is greatly appreciated.

[edDV]

The difference is ~$400-750 vs $50-125 for starters.

Then there is absorbing all the complexity from a dead start.

Also, Vegas Movie Studio+DVD or Premiere Elements have documentation targeting the beginner. There are also excellent third party training products available for both products.

I think you will be able to progress faster starting with the simplified products. Also consider that by the time you come up to speed, another version will be out there forcing a $150-299 upgrade charge for the higher end products.

[frappawotsit]

The difference is ~$400-750 vs $50-125 for starters.

Then there is absorbing all the complexity from a dead start.

Also, Vegas Movie Studio+DVD or Premiere Elements have documentation targeting the beginner. There are also excellent third party training products available for both products.

I think you will be able to progress faster starting with the simplified products. Also consider that by the time you come up to speed, another version will be out there forcing a $150-299 upgrade charge for the higher end products.

Fair comment regarding complexities and price etc....

but would I still get the same quality from Movie studio?

Is the full version simple if i keep my requirement simple? or are even the basics complicated in that product?

The money isn't an issue for me, but i agree if it's too complex for me to even manage the basics then the s/w is no use to me.

All i want to do is cut my .avi file into a number of clips, add some transitions between clips, add some titles/text and a background soundtrack. I may add some narration, but rarely. Then render it all together again as a single file.

and that is the limit of my requirement.... If i can do that reasonably easily in the full version to a higher standard than using the cut down version, then that makes sense.

If however the quality / number of transitions etc is no different then i may as well make my life easier with the cut down version

[edDV]

The difference is ~$400-750 vs $50-125 for starters.

Then there is absorbing all the complexity from a dead start.

Also, Vegas Movie Studio+DVD or Premiere Elements have documentation targeting the beginner. There are also excellent third party training products available for both products.

I think you will be able to progress faster starting with the simplified products. Also consider that by the time you come up to speed, another version will be out there forcing a $150-299 upgrade charge for the higher end products.

Fair comment regarding complexities and price etc....

but would I still get the same quality from Movie studio?

Is the full version simple if i keep my requirement simple? or are even the basics complicated in that product?

The money isn't an issue for me, but i agree if it's too complex for me to even manage the basics then the s/w is no use to me.

All i want to do is cut my .avi file into a number of clips, add some transitions between clips, add some titles/text and a background soundtrack. I may add some narration, but rarely. Then render it all together again as a single file.

and that is the limit of my requirement.... If i can do that reasonably easily in the full version to a higher standard than using the cut down version, then that makes sense.

If however the quality / number of transitions etc is no different then i may as well make my life easier with the cut down version

Based on your needs, I'd stick with the consumer products. They operate the way you describe. The higher end products do not offer push button effects. They offer a wider selection of tools to create unique combinations of functions resulting in an effect.

Consider building an Ikea desk vs. being given a stack of wood and a fully equipped woodshop. It will take you some time to get a quality desk from that wood shop.

Once you feel confident on the consumer product, you can demo the high end version to see the differences.

[guns1inger]

The major differences are the formats supported - Movie Studio doesn't support the high-end pro formats, and the number of video layers and audio channels. Vegas is pretty much unlimited (or limited by your system resources). Neither of these will impact your project quality.

Given the same input source, the same project in both will produce the same quality output.

Everything you have cited as a requirement is easily handled by the Movie Studio / Elements level software. The things you will loose are things you will not miss.

If you want a run down of Movie studio vs Vegas, have a look here : http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/products/product.asp?PID=408&PageID=17

[Cornucopia]

...Consider building an Ikea desk vs. being given a stack of wood and a fully equipped woodshop. It will take you some time to get a quality desk from that wood shop.

Once you feel confident on the consumer product, you can demo the high end version to see the differences.

The only thing to consider beyond this sentiment is: What happens when you don't want just an Ikea desk, you want a Louis XIV chair, an Amish Roll-top desk, or some sleek Italian or Danish design. Prefab won't cut it. How far do you want to go?...

Scott

[frappawotsit]

yet again gunslinger, you're comments make so very much sense.

Thank you one and all for some great advice, the analogy made a lot of sense, and it spot on, i'm only looking for the ikea desk, and to be honest, i doubt i'll ever be looking for that louis XIV chair, just so long as the ikea desk is good enough quality.

thanks again.

[thecoalman]

Two other decent consumer applications are Ulead Movie Factory about $50+ (minor editing, decent authoring) or Ulead Video Studio (excellent starter editor, minor authoring abilities). Both use a version of mainconcept for encoding, AC3 etc, the whole nine yards. Both are hard to beat for the price.


As far as compring any of the consumer applications to the pro apps it comes down to about one thing, limitations. I'll give you a brief example comparing Ulead Movie Factory to Ulead DVD Workshop, with Movie Factory you're pretty much stuck with whatever templates they give you, they can be modified somewhat... DVD Workshop Gives you a blank slate and you can take it whereever you want. Your also going to pay a small fortune for it.

The better consumer editors have advanced so far over the last 2 or 3 years I think it's safe to say that you can pretty much accomplish just about anything you want with them. Ulead Video for example even has chroma keying (blue screen), most consumers are never even to go anywhere near that feature.