Need good hi8 cassettes

[CCEncoder]

I wonder if all hi8 cassettes are the same? I have a Sony CCD-TR750E camcorder that I like to get the best of it right now is using a sony tape... perhaps if I buy a JVC hi8 cassette I can get better picture and sound quality would you recommend me something? :confused:

[ZAPPER]

Thanks for making me feel dumber than usual. I never even considered doing a quality comparison test with my own equipment (Sony Cam). I always just bought the Sony Hi8 MP digital tapes that were always on the shelf. Which kind of brings me to the next point or observation. They are getting harder to find or when I do find them they are costing more than I thought they did when I first started buying them. (OK, yes there is such a thing as inflation) My point is that when I was first buying them there was always some kind of bulk discount, that is, it was cheaper per unit to buy an eight or ten pack. On a couple occassions not too long ago it was cheaper to buy a two pack than a larger pack. So I opted for the cheaper path, the thing is that there have only been a few of the tapes even on display the last few times that I have bought, which brings me to the next point. Is it a dying format and are the tapes still even being made or is what is on the shelf just stuff coming out of a warehouse somewhere?

OK I must also add that WallyWorld and Target have been my stomping grounds for such consumables, but you would think that you should be able to go into WallyWorld and buy like a hundred units no problem.

Next point. Xmas is coming and I should have some time to shoot some of the dreaded family footage, maybe I will try to do a little comparison test of my own.

I am still interested in others opinions and research though.

[edDV]

Hard to find a spec sheet for that camcorder.

Assuming it is Hi8 recording format, the tape quality divisions are consumer vs. pro vs archive.

Consumer is designed to be good enough and cheap.

Pro is designed for heavy use and interchange with other decks. Advantage is fewer dropouts and holding shape (i.e. tracking) when slapped around by fast winding pro machines.

Archive is for long live in storage (library stuff).

[edDV]

OK I must also add that WallyWorld and Target have been my stomping grounds for such consumables, but you would think that you should be able to go into WallyWorld and buy like a hundred units no problem.

Next point. Xmas is coming and I should have some time to shoot some of the dreaded family footage, maybe I will try to do a little comparison test of my own.

I am still interested in others opinions and research though.

Sam's Club or Costco have the cheapest prices for Hi8/Digital8 tape (bulk packs). Digital8 has kept Hi8 alive in the stores.

[ZAPPER]

Hey there edDV. Could you point towards a link that might have some info about the differences? (Just a site that you might reccomend to save me from searching all night)

[edDV]

Here are some in no order

http://www.tapestockonline.com/hi-8.html
http://www.protapenw.com/acatalog/Hi8_video_tape.html
http://www.tapeandmedia.com/Hi8_Digital8.asp
http://www.supermediastore.com/8mm-data-tape.html

[handyguy]

Mine work best if I use them a few times first.

[ZAPPER]

@ Big edDV

Thanks for the links, I spent about an hour looking for a comparison test and didn't find one. I did learn some cool stuff and saw some price swings.

I was wanting to learn a bit more about the actual performance differences between tapes and so forth. The coating composition and thickness appear to be a major factor as well as the accuracy of the actual tape deminsions. Friction and elasticity and so on also play a part in performance, but from what I have found just by looking around is that there may not be all that much of a difference, tapes either work or they don't.

I am cosidering looking further into the "archival" type or designed tapes because it is probably what I actually do with my tapes. That is shoot until the end or near end of the tape and grab another one to continue. I veiw and display them a couple of times and then stick them away for safe keeping after a copy, in one form or another, is sent away to the grandfolks.

[SingSing]

Better Video and sound depends more on the camcorder's optics, CCD, and mic. As long as there are no drop out on the tape, it is good to go. Many airlines were playing in-flight movies with Sony hi-8 MP before the digital age.

[edDV]

Hi8 had its day in the '90's and was better for camcorder application IMO than S-VHS when all factors were considered. The big flaw was dropout of one to many pixels across a line. These dropouts tended to be worse at either end of a tape so normal practice was to "black stripe" the tape and record from 3 to 5min in and stop before the tape was full.

Digital8 and MiniDV are so much better. The recording format exceeds the attached camera performance in all cases that I've seen. Even the lowest Digital8 camcorder records a higher quality signal than pro Betacam and Betacam SP of the 80's. The camera section is usually nowhere close.

I consider Hi8 as capture problem, not a viable recording format in 2006. If I need to do a live recording from my Hi8 camcorder (a prosumer V5000) I would record its S-Video output to a Digital8 or MiniDV camcorder.

[SingSing]

Just curious. Isn't hi-8 tape can be use for digital-8 recording ?

[Snakebyte1]

Yes, today's Hi8 and D8 tapes are the same. The packaging of Hi8 tapes usually include the D8 logo as well.

[edDV]

Just curious. Isn't hi-8 tape can be use for digital-8 recording ?

Yes Digital8 records DV format to Hi8 tape stock but the bitrate requires running the tape at double speed. So a 120 min Hi8 tape can record 60 min of D8. In most respects, the D8 and MinDV recorded data are identical.

D8 also can be recorded to standard 8mm tape at the same speed and "quality". The difference is the signal to noise at the analog level. 8mm tape in this application has less safety margin on signal to noise so digital reading errors are more likely to happen. I have had no problem with D8 on modern 8mm tape but for important recordings, I will use Hi8 tape.

[CCEncoder]

Why record digital on tape when you can use a mindvd disc right?

[CCEncoder]

Guys can I take a hi8 tape and put it on a DV camcorder and output it as digital?

[ZAPPER]

Guys can I take a hi8 tape and put it on a DV camcorder and output it as digital?

If the the DV cam has a firewire output and will play the tape. the stuff coming out of the firewire will be digital. I would assume that there may be some degrading as the cam converts the tape out put to digital but I doubt it would be noticeable.

[ZAPPER]

Why record digital on tape when you can use a mindvd disc right?

Why not straight to harddrive? Well actually my answer would be "As what format or compression?" As a rule of thumb DV would be the best original commonly standard source or format for a cam, the problem comes out as it not being the primary end use format. A DV tape, disk, or hardrive is not as common as say a VCD or DVD for passing around to the grandparents or selling as a production video.

[edDV]

Why record digital on tape when you can use a mindvd disc right?

There are two separate issues, compression format and recording media.

SD Compression Formats*:
Digital Betacam (4:2:2) 3x compression is the best for SD recording at 90 Mb/s
DV format is high quality 5x compressed 4:1:1 or 4:2:0 at 25Mb/s
MPeg2 is distribution quality 4:2:0 ~20x compression at 6-9 Mb/s
MPeg4 is distribution quality 4:2:0 ~40x compression at 3-5 Mb/s

Recording media:
Any of the above can be copied to any digital media such as tape, optical, flash memory or hard disk. Capacity usually ties a format to a particular media. For example, MiniDV or Hi8 tape holds ~14GB, DVD-5 holds 4.35GB and flash memory is up to 2GB.

For example: DV format can be recorded to tape, DVD (Sony XDCAM) or Flash Memory (Panasonic HVX-200). MPeg2 can be recorded to DVD, hard disk, flash or tape (Sony IMX models).

Guys can I take a hi8 tape and put it on a DV camcorder and output it as digital?

If the particular Digital8 camcorder supports that mode. All early models had that feature. Recently only the top of line models support hi8 playback through IEEE-1394 in DV format.


* There are variations on these formats. Typical specs are used.

[ZAPPER]

Just curious? Do all disk cams record in the same format?

[edDV]

Just curious? Do all disk cams record in the same format?

No.
Consumer DVD or hard disk cams are usually recording distribution quality MPeg2. There is a new generation of AVCHD DVD and flash memory/hard disk cams recording MPeg4 variations.

[ZAPPER]

Thanks again there big ed.

I didn't figure that they were all the same format. I think that I will stick with the old fasioned digital 8s and standard DV as long as they last. I don't see HD going fully mainstream for a few years just yet.

[CCEncoder]

So DVD camaras record lower quality then DV camaras right?

[bobkart]

Yes.

Maximum DVD audio+video bitrate (MPEG2): ~10Mb/s

DV audio+video bitrate: 25Mb/s.

[SingSing]

Most of the miniDV recording will be compressed to DVD mpeg-2 for playback as DVD.

[bobkart]

Sure. CCEncoder is asking about the quality of the recording though. Not what they will be copied to for distribution, which your comment addresses.