TV tuner card recommendation

[rakan]

Hi there, I am making a new system and I wanted to get some ideas on the type of video capture card I should get. I require a card that can capture TV episodes and compress them to XviD in real time (I do this using VirtualDub). Up until now I have been using a very old Hauppauge WinTV card, it works but it doesn't have hardware encoding so my CPU has to work at near 100% to compress at 320x240.

I would like a card that does hardware encoding using the XviD codec at a higher resolution (512X384 would be nice). I really would like hardware encoding because I would rather the card do the work instead of my CPU. Are there any cards out there that do this? Thanks.

[mats.hogberg]

Don't think any cards do XviD hardware.

/Mats

[rakan]

So I would probably have to find a card that compresses to an MPEG-2 format and recompress to XviD at a later time? Are there any cards that do real-time MPEG-2 compression that anyone can recommend? Thanks.

[mats.hogberg]

Hauppage PVR 1/2/350 cards do that. Excellent mpg encodes, ready for DVD or VCD. Tho I think you'd be better off (qualitywise) with a DV capture card (Canopus ADVC series?) if your ultimate goal is XviD and not DVD.

/Mats

[jagabo]

Some of the Plextor ConvertX models support hardware MPEG4 encoding. I believe some of the ATI devices do too. You may find software support (capturing programs) and MPEG4 video quality to be limited though.

[FulciLives]

One possibility is to get a hardware MPEG-2 capture card.

Popular choices are the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 250 (PCI with inputs only), the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 350 (PCI with inputs and outputs) or the Hauppauge WinTV PVR USB2 (external USB 2.0 with inputs). The Hauppauge WinTV PVR 150 is easy-to-find but has too many bugs and should be avoided. I would say the same applies to the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 500 ... avoid.

Anyways the 250/350/USB2 are capable of doing a MPEG-2 capture at a bitrate of up to 15,00kbps which is actually higher than what the DVD format supports but MPEG-2 is capable of that SO if you intend to capture with the idea of then converting to something else (such as XviD) then you would want to do a 15,000kbps CBR video bitrate capture with 385kbps 16-bit 48k stereo MP2 audio and use a resolution of 720x480 if NTSC or 720x576 if PAL.

I dislike MPEG-4 (such as XviD and DivX) for analog video captures due to interlacing issues but if you want to do it then that is on you.

The 250/350/USB2 can also capture to a MPEG-2 DVD compliant file. In my opinion you are better off just doing that and burn as a DVD Video.

As far as MPEG-4 goes there is at least one capture device that I am aware of that can capture direct to MPEG-4 using hardware encoding.

That device is the Plextor ConvertX PVR PX-TV402U but looking at the "Capture Cards" section of this website I see there are a few other choices ... although the Plextor is the only one I have ever read user comments about (I'm talking about threads on this website ... not just comments in the "Capture Cards" section).

From what I've read the Plextor is really not "up to speed" or in other words it is a half assed POS. Although this next statement is conjecture here goes: I would be highly surprised if any of the other MPEG-4 hardware capture cards were any better (or actually work well).

Another option would be to use a Canopus ADVC-110 (or the very similiar DataVideo DAC-100) because these two will also give a very high quality capture (DV AVI format) although DV AVI uses 4:1:1 color sampling and some seem to think this a bad thing while other people say it ain't such a big deal. Also the file size with DV AVI is about 13GB per hour whereas a MPEG-2 capture at a video bitrate of 15,000kbps CBR with 384kbps MP2 audio is only about half as big and while more compressed it is still very high quality without the 4:1:1 color sampling thing (although that only applies to NTSC DV AVI so if you do PAL that is not a concern).

Either way you will get a high quality capture that can then easily be converted to XviD or whatever you want.

One word of warning though ... the Hauppauge units all do high quality captures and work really well but it is not uncommon to have errors with A/V sync when you go to manipulate the captures. This seems to be easily fixed by using a program called VideoRedo as it has a function called "QuickStream Fix". So after you capture with a Hauppauge run it through that VideoReDo option. You can then safetly use VideoRedo to edit the file and then do whatever else you want to do with it (i.e, demux and convert to XviD as seems to be your case here).

So in short when deciding which way to go bear in mind the cost of adding VideoReDo to the purchase of the Hauppauge vs the cost of the Canopus ADVC-110.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman


- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[mats.hogberg]

I agree with all what FulciLives says, except the part about A/V sync problems. I use TDA and Womble mpg VCR to cut out commercials and "lead in/lead out" - Never a sync problem whatsoever. Oh, and I have a 250. Like stated, the 150 card has (or at least had) some issues. If it's solved in later versions I don't know.

/Mats

[FulciLives]

I agree with all what FulciLives says, except the part about A/V sync problems. I use TDA and Womble mpg VCR to cut out commercials and "lead in/lead out" - Never a sync problem whatsoever. Oh, and I have a 250. Like stated, the 150 card has (or at least had) some issues. If it's solved in later versions I don't know.

/Mats

Just to be safe you should run the capture through the "MPEG GOP Fixer" function of Womble's MPEG-VCR before using MPEG-VCR to edit your files.

My understanding is that the "MPEG GOP Fixer" function in MPEG-VCR does more-or-less the same thing as the "QuickStream Fix" function in VideoReDo.

I have both MPEG-VCR and VideoReDo and like both but I know some people have had issues with MPEG-VCR editing but not with VideoReDo editing. I've never had an issue either way.

Then again when I use one or the other to edit a MPEG-2 file it is one that has come from a DVD Video rip (as I use a stand alone DVD recorder these days).

I know ... I know ... how dare I use a stand alone DVD recorder instead of a computer capture device ...

the horror ...

the horror ...

LOL

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[rakan]

Thanks for your help guys (especially FulciLives for his very informative reply), the Hauppauge 250 sounds like the way to go. I will check out the Plextor models also. Thank you all!

[rakan]

One more question guys. I was reading up in the Hauppauge PVR 250 and it says that it can compress to MPEG-2. From there I should be able to compress to an XviD avi using VirtualDub, right?

Basically, I want to be able to record the TV shows using the TV tuner's MPEG-2 hardware encoder and then compress them further into an XviD encoded AVI using VirtualDub. Is this possible? Does anyone else do this?

[FulciLives]

One more question guys. I was reading up in the Hauppauge PVR 250 and it says that it can compress to MPEG-2. From there I should be able to compress to an XviD avi using VirtualDub, right?

Basically, I want to be able to record the TV shows using the TV tuner's MPEG-2 hardware encoder and then compress them further into an XviD encoded AVI using VirtualDub. Is this possible? Does anyone else do this?

As I said in my one post above ... yes you can do that.

However I feel MPEG-4 (DivX and XviD) are poor choices for analog captures because such captures are interlaced and MPEG-4 really only works well with a progressive source.

You would be better to just burn to a DVD Video disc.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[mats.hogberg]

I should be able to compress to an XviD avi using VirtualDub, right?

Or equally well (but much less hazzle) with avi.net or AutoGK - You'd have to be really good at configuring the XviD codec to beat the quality these apps provide with a few simple clicks from mpg to XviD AVI.

/Mats

[rakan]

Thanks again to both of you. I'll check out avi.net.

[FulciLives]

Thanks again to both of you. I'll check out avi.net.

I like autoGK better myself but that's me.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[BostonDriver]

One possibility is to get a hardware MPEG-2 capture card.

Popular choices are the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 250 (PCI with inputs only), the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 350 (PCI with inputs and outputs) or the Hauppauge WinTV PVR USB2 (external USB 2.0 with inputs).

I'm considering a WinTV PVR 350. This will replace an old (~5 year) WinTV card. Do you know if the 350 supports both Red and White audio connectors?

[FulciLives]

One possibility is to get a hardware MPEG-2 capture card.

Popular choices are the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 250 (PCI with inputs only), the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 350 (PCI with inputs and outputs) or the Hauppauge WinTV PVR USB2 (external USB 2.0 with inputs).

I'm considering a WinTV PVR 350. This will replace an old (~5 year) WinTV card. Do you know if the 350 supports both Red and White audio connectors?

It has a mini audio plug. Nothing wrong with that as you can get an adapter at any decent computer store or Radio Shack. Hell it might even come with one.

Although ... Hauppauge does make some of their cards in WinXP MCE versions and those have standard RC stereo inputs ... not sure if the WinTV PVR 350 comes in a MCE version.

But there is nothing wrong with the mini audio plug outside needing an adapter. Should be no quality loss.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[The_Doman]

Although ... Hauppauge does make some of their cards in WinXP MCE versions and those have standard RC stereo inputs ... not sure if the WinTV PVR 350 comes in a MCE version.

But there is nothing wrong with the mini audio plug outside needing an adapter. Should be no quality loss.

Yeah , nothing wrong with the minijack for audio ofcourse.
More cumbersome is you need a special extension lead for the Composite/S-Video input connections, which can get lost.
It's much more convenient to have standard Composite/S-video connectors available.

Also there is no PVR350 MCE.
If you don't need the video-out option of the PVR350 (which is very limited to just MPEG1/2) you could try to find a PVR 250MCE if they are still available somewhere.

I personally use a couple of PVR150MCE's which work nice in my setup, but I can't really recommend those because of all the POSSIBLE problems you can encounter with those cards.
Much more you can read about that in this forum.

[BostonDriver]

Thanks to you both. I'm off to Amazon to get the PVR 350. I assume I get stereo once I have the minijack that lets me plug my white & red RC plugs in?

I just found this board. I think I'm going to like it here. Lots and lots of neat reading.

[jagabo]

I assume I get stereo once I have the minijack that lets me plug my white & red RC plugs in?

Yes. Use something like one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/HOSA-CMR206-Stereo-Mini-Y-Cable/dp/B000068O33

http://www.amazon.com/AUDIO-SPLITTER-3-5MM-STEREO-FEMALE/dp/B0009JFF7K/sr=8-22/qid=116...524643-6635148

http://www.headphone.com/products/cables-and-adaptors/adaptors/stereo-mini-to-rca-adapter.php

[mats.hogberg]

For additional resources regarding the Huappage cards, see www.shspvr.com. A very comprehensive resource for Hauppage card owners.

/Mats

[BostonDriver]

I assume I get stereo once I have the minijack that lets me plug my white & red RC plugs in?

Yes. Use something like one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/AUDIO-SPLITTER-3-5MM-STEREO-FEMALE/dp/B0009JFF7K/sr=8-22/qid=116...524643-6635148

The one I quote above did the trick.

I now have a new issue. My video-in (using the composite to S-Video adapter supplied) only gives Black & White. No color. I plug the same camera into my old WinTV-fm and I get color. The old card has a composite Video-In jack however.

I Google'ed a bit and read about this being possible with a bad cable. Before I go look for one, I wanted to check here to see if others do get color Video-In with this card. In other words, does the card even support it?

If it is the supplied adapter, why would they ship such a thing?

Thanks for any help.

[FulciLives]

I know Radio Shack makes an adapter that goes from composite to S-Video but it costs like $21.00 if I recall.

I currently am testing a new capture device that does not have composite but does have S-Video input. It came with no adapter. I was going to buy the one at Radio Shack until I remembered that I have an old JVC S-VHS that is broken (will not play back a videotape) but otherwise works so I have my composite source plugged into the JVC S-VHS then using the JVC S-Video output to go to the S-Video input on the capture device.

Another option is a "switcher" box that allows for multiple inputs with one output and you pick which of the inputs you want to go through the output. Some of these feature composite and S-Video inputs and if you input composite it will convert to S-Video for output.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[BostonDriver]

This now works using the supplied adapter.

The trick is to select "Composite 2" for color.

[Tom Saurus]

rakan: Thank you for launching this thread. There seems to be quite abit of information here about the Hauppauge capture cards. Maybe I will be able to get a better understanding of the pros and cons of the Hauppauge capture cards.

I don't like the av sinc issues that atleast one person mentioned. I use Womble Mpeg Video Wizard to edit out commercials. Most of the time on my ATI All In Wonder I don't run into a/v sinc issues. From what I have read the ATI is having alot of driver issues and that is a turn off. The low cpu load of the hauppauge products is very appealing. I think this thread, with all the information all ready here and those links will give me a deeper understanding of these products and will help me come to a decision.

Thanks once again for launching this thread and thank you to those who provided the information to rakan.