mpeg1 (X)SVCD

[sandokan]

I was wondering:
did some people run experiments with mpeg1 files authored as a SVCD (actually it becomes XSVCD, right?).
(2520 kbps, 480x576).
how did they look??

the reason i was wondering:
i saw various posts stating that mpeg1 at (relatively) low bitrates works better than mpeg2.

[Truman]

I only used the opposed method, XVCD with MPEG-2 video. You should try it by yourself and let us know, how it looks.

[sandokan]

i would like to try it,
but one problem: my yamaha dvds510 won't play xvcd's.

i've tried to make a SVCD (ok, it's really xsvcd) with mpeg1 and at first pick it seemed to be nice.

[Truman]

You missunderstood me, I wanted to know, how the mpeg1 XSVCD look compared to SCVD (mpeg2) at the same bitrate. Do you think, MPEG-1 look better than MPEG-2 at a bitrate lower than 1400kbps?
My dvd player doesn't play SVCD, so I do everything like I would do for SVCD, but I multiplex as MPEG-1 Video-CD(non-standard) with TMPG and burn as Video-CD. This works like a charme for me and don't change my method anymore- until someone give me a good reason.
I tried MPEG-1 VBR several times with CCE 2.50. It looked better than the MPEG-1 VBR from TMPG. I used 3pass, min500, max2500. But sometimes CCE set the max bitrate (actually a peak bitrate) higher than 2500, so I had problems to play it on my dvd player. I never noticed this, when I use MPEG-2. It is hard for me to compare my old mpeg1 xvcd to my new mpeg2 XVCD, because I use another frameserve method now. But when I watch both, I must say, mpeg2 looks better. The lowest bitrate I have used, is 1275kbps (min500, max2500), 4pass.

[next]

Wow - Where is Virtualis when you need him.

[Truman]

@ next, since XVCD is off standard anyway, that means you can not play it on every dvd player, I go to the limit of MY player. And it doesn't play SVCD and I don't like standardVCD, so I don't care about ANY standards and hope, my good old standalone will have a looong life.
Regards

[sandokan]

--------------------------------------------
Wow - Where is Virtualis when you need him.
--------------------------------------------

yup,
may be can Virtualis give his opinion......

i'll test it (again):
encoding Mpeg1 with panasonic-encoder
(cbr2500, 480*576, audio 128kbps).

Demux
Mux with tmpeg or bbmpeg
burn SVCD with nero (doesn't complain abou compatibility!).

we'll see.

[next]

Hey guys I was just kidding! I like the creativeness. I only cap in xvcd myself but I've tried everything else. And I'm still trying. My "wow" was because of the mpeg1 svcd burns and the mpeg2 xvcd stuff. How do you classify that? Any mpeg2 burn off specs is probably xsvcd and any mpeg1 burn is probably xvcd regardless of what Nero is telling you. But hey, who cares. Congrats!

Michael's head is going to explode!

[Radioman]

Hi all

Just for your information: ...

My standalone DVD player - Nintaus 9901/n plays everyhthing pretty well. BUT I have to tell "him/her" if there is an (x)vcd or an SVCD CD. The resolution is essentiell but the bitrate is all forgiving. So an PAL xvcd at 353@288 at ANY audio bitrate is OK´.

Same with the love

[Radioman]

Hi all

Just for your information: ...

My standalone DVD player - Nintaus 9901/n plays everyhthing pretty well. BUT I have to tell "him/her" if there is an (x)vcd or an SVCD CD. The resolution is essentiell but the bitrate is all forgiving. So an PAL xvcd at 353@288 at ANY audio bitrate is OK´.

Same with the love

[wildcatfan]

My $.02

If your dvd player doesn't recognice svcd's it probably won't recognice xsvcd's with mpeg1. Just because it's mpeg1 doesn't mean jack, because the discs are authored different. on the other hand if you use I-Author (or nero) and tell it to put the files in the mpegav directory instead of the mpeg2 one then it might play. BTW if you use I author you will have to use it's muxer to get it to accept mpeg1 files. Now as far as the quality goes. If you want to still encode to 23.976 ntsc film with mpeg1 svcd......forget it. Doesn't work well (at least not on my player, apex 703) it is VERY jumpy. I personally think the differences between mpeg1 and mpeg2 are very minute around the 1000-1500 mark. Below that mpeg1 might be better, I don't know I don't ever go that low.

Michael

[Leon]

MPEG-1 has been designed for low bit-rate (1X, 2X) and MPEG-2 has been designed for high bitrate (15Mb/s for DVB, 100Mb/s for HDTV and 10Mb/s for DVD came later).

So below 6Mb/s , MPEG-2 looks bad which is the problem of SVCD. Going about 1x (1400kbps) with MPEG-2 doesn't make sense.

Trying MPEG-1 (XVCD) above 1X (1400Kbps) , say 2X at 2800Kbps with 352x288, 352x576 or 704x576 should give good results (for NTSC change 576 with 480). But it's off standard so to play on PC only.

Leon
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/lelab/index_en.htm

[sandokan]

----------------------------------------------------------
So below 6Mb/s , MPEG-2 looks bad which is the problem of SVCD. Going about 1x (1400kbps) with MPEG-2 doesn't make sense.
Trying MPEG-1 (XVCD) above 1X (1400Kbps) , say 2X at 2800Kbps with 352x288, 352x576 or 704x576 should give good results
----------------------------------------------------------

that's the reason i'm testing this stuff.

my SVCD's looked nice, but i think it can be better, that's the reason for the experiment.
because my DVDS510 (yamaha)doesn't play XVCD, i'm trying to make a SVCD with the earlier mentioned spec's.
btw, if i-author except this format (properly muxed as SVCD)
i can make nice menues.
right now my comp is working (i'm at my work right now),
i'll check (compare) this evening or this weekend.

[Truman]

@ wildcatfan, I put the files into the MPEGAV directory (NERO), but SVCD is still not working.
@LEON, I think, my MPEG-2 look great even at low bitrates. You know, taste is very subjectiv, but a untrained eye will hardly see the difference to DVD! (Yes, conversion of captured files is a completly different thing.)
And I can play around with the resolution. My player will play every resolution as long as I mux with TMPG as VCD(non-standard).

[SatStorm]

In europe/africa/asia/latin america, the satellite transmissions are mpeg 2 with Bitrate about 4000...
Some SCPC channels (simply carrier per channel) got a bitrate at 2000...
Some MCPC channels (multi carrier per channel) with VBR transmission (almost all digital satellite packages in europe) have VBR about 1450 to 3000 and looks great...
No, the problem is not on mpeg 2 and the bitrate...
maybe has to do with the current encoders, or some things we don't know when we encode...
I personally do XVCDs because my SVCDS with tmpegenc, are really bad! Sharp, but blocky...
The source is in mpeg, so I can not use direct cinemcraft to see if the results are differend that tmpegenc....

Mpeg 2 has nothing to do with the quality at low bitrates... The "problem" is somewhere else...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SatStorm on 2001-07-20 05:31:27 ]</font>

[glinckens]

Hey you gave me an idea...

I have a divx dvd-rip which I want to convert to high quality CD, playable on my dvd player. So what if I do the following:

Open the divx in TMPGenc, load a standard SuperVideoCD template, unlock it, and ONLY change the stream type from MPEG-2 to MPEG-1.

If I encode using these settings I'll get a high quality, relatively low bitrate XVCD file, right?
I think this will be better than SVCD, if the player plays it.