LP quality - how does it compare to VHS LP?

[jonnymorris]

Hi!

I'm somewhat of a newbie when it comes to DVD recorders, I've done a lot of reading on the internet and found out plenty of stuff, but other than a few potentially biased viewpoints I haven't found any comparison between VHS LP and DVD LP. On my VHS recorder LP is virtually the same as SP, but then I have a top of the range Panasonic video recorder (not SVHS), which unfortunately has decided not to eject my tape so it's probably time to get a replacement.

I can get six hours out of a normal three hour tape at very acceptable quality, certainly enough to enjoy the programme I've taped from the telly without quality being an issue. In buying a replacement I would want at least this level of quality and time available to me, however I hear horror stories about hard drives failing, DVD LP modes being jittery and basically rubbish, and other stuff like that. So how bad is LP, really?

I like Panasonic and I hear they have the best quality, but on this site people have been championing the JVC 70 for VHS transfer (which I obviously will want to do at some stage). Also I've been unable to find the JVC 70 for sale anywhere here in the UK (looking online), high street shops tend to have a lot of cheaper makes on the shelf and maybe one old Panasonic and Sony collecting dust, they never seem to put them on sale either. I shall be going on a shopping expedition to York soon, there's a big Currys at Clifton Moor so I'll see what they have to offer. My Panasonic VHS recorder came from Currys in Leeds, it was end of line stock and nearly half price.

Help on this would be greatly appreciated!

[Frobozz]

You probably won't like the picture quality when recording 6 hours of video to a single-layer DVD. I recommend staying at a 3-hour mode although a 4-hour mode is acceptable as long as the source was good quality. For example, you wouldn't want to transfer your LP tapes to an LP disc because the lack of detail in the tapes will be much more apparent when digitized at a low bit rate.

One of the advantages of hard drive-equipped DVD recorders is there is room to record programs at a reasonably high setting for time-shift viewing. You only need to be concerned with what fits a disc if you're planning to burn a disc to keep in your library. Even then, you can first edit out the commercials which lets you choose a better quality setting than what would fit the disc when the commercials are included.

Panasonic's DVD recorders are very good. Don't buy low-end and you'll be satisfied.

[lordsmurf]

Forget what you know about VHS. It no longer applies.

Pretty much all DVD recorders can safely make a nice quality DVD in 2-hour mode. There are still quirks in the quality and color, contrast and various noises.

When you want to do more than 2 hours, is when you start to see huge differences in equipment.

When you want to do VHS to DVD, not just live tv (aerial, cable, satellite) you start to see huge differences, mostly because of filters machines have or do not have.

Panasonic is NOT a machine for VHS work. It basically has no quality filters. All of your chroma noise (that red/blue shimmering type color noise found in ALL tapes) and your grain noise is not filtered. I would suggest a machine with an LSI chipset, be it JVC, LG, maybe LiteOn, and some others. Search the forum here for the terms "LSI chipset gallery" and it should pull up a list, as well as a link to the official list on the LSI site. There are several UK machines that have LSI chips, besides JVC, that should work just as well for you.

The LSI is also one of several chips that does good quality up to 4 hours worth of recording. The 3-hour mark tends to be the sweet spot on these machines.

For me, the goal is to not only transfer VHS tapes, but to IMPROVE THE QUALITY at the same time. I find it sort of pointless to transfer over video errors. Need to remove them. To that end, Panasonic and Philips recorders tend to be huge disappointments.

The other thing to watch out for is those stupid machines that do 720x480 resolution beyond 2 hours, there is nto enough bitrate, and your image goes all blocky. For example, there is at least 1 Panasonic machine that has an LSI chipset, but that advantage is pissed away because they do 720x480 all the way to 4 hours, and the video is so blocky that it's unbearable to watch. May as well be a VCD.

Good luck.

[MeekloBraca]

Hey Smurf, with that DRM100, do you find the Video quality is better at FR180 (3 hour mode) than at say FR 155?

[Wile_E]

Here is LSI Logics list of recorders with their chipset. The Panasonic DMR-ES20 is listed.

http://www.lsilogic.com/products/product_showcase/index.html

[davideck]

I would add Toshiba into this mix. Excellent picture quality and superior TBC performance. A fine DVD Recorder for VHS transfer.

[lordsmurf]

Hey Smurf, with that DRM100, do you find the Video quality is better at FR180 (3 hour mode) than at say FR 155?

Of course. FR155 uses 720x480 and is starved for birate.
FR180 is 352x480 and has a great bitrate allocation. The image is very clean, very crisp, and very true to the source (less noise).

The res change happens somewhere in the FR160s or FR170s. I forget where. You'd have to test.

[MeekloBraca]

I wonder if the res change happens when you go from 2:31 to 2:36. I did some tests in quality and found it decreses from 2:36 onward. I do however find the quality to be pretty pitiful at 2:21 mode.

[Oscar wallace]

I can get six hours out of a normal three hour tape at very acceptable quality,

But finding the start of programmes can be a pain,then theres wear and tear ect....If I was you I would get a Panasonic (very reliable models seem to end up in the uk they sell the cack to the yanks).
My £350 Sony VHS gives a good picture but recordable DVD is the way to go and not just for picture quality but a lot other advantages as well.

[MeekloBraca]

Hey Smurf do you find that the JVC gives you about 9 more mins. than the machine predicts for a CD?

Also does the Toshiba DR5 run 720x480 to LP mode or does it switch over for 3 hour mode?

[lordsmurf]

It depends on the source and the disc. Sometimes a DVD-R holds 3:16 in FR180, 16 extra. Sometimes it's far less. Remember that this is a VBR encode, and something like a cartoon will compress better than a live action show with lots of movement and dark scenes.

[MeekloBraca]

I dunno, its weird. With the JVC DRM70 it was always 2 hour 1 minute and 35 seconds, every time religiously. With the Panasonic it was always on the money no matter the setting.

[lordsmurf]

The Panasonic also has a sucky encoder and it only fills 4.0GB on a disc, not 4.25GB like the JVC, which has a better encoder. It's really not that hard to figure out.

[MeekloBraca]

"With the JVC DRM70 it was always 2 hour 1 minute and 35 seconds"

You seemed to have missed the point, its not that hard to figure out.