WGA to evolve into a Windows "Kill Switch"?

[fritzi93]

Not sure what to think about this. If true, they can kiss my hairy butt.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84&tag=nl.e550

[teegee420]

Those bastards.

[CrayonEater]

I doubt this "kill switch" will work unless you didn't uninstall it or unless some "kill switch" was embedded in another update, unbeknownst to anybody.

However, I'm thinking it's time to go with Linux full-time. However, I fully intend to hold Microsoft legally accountable for any losses I take.

[fritzi93]

Heh, it installed automatically on my computer, and without any of the problems that *some* users report. But after reading some of the early blogs on WGA, I did a system restore and turned off automatic updates.

Not a pleasant feeling to be at their mercy, so to speak. They can't MAKE me participate. Not when there's this:

http://windizupdate.com/

And this:

http://www.autopatcher.com/

[ROF]

Not a pleasant feeling to be at their mercy, so to speak. They can't MAKE me participate.

Did you read the article:

He told me that "in the fall, having the latest WGA will become mandatory and if its not installed, Windows will give a 30 day warning and when the 30 days is up and WGA isn't installed, Windows will stop working, so you might as well install WGA now."

Failure to install will result in windows stops working. Finally Microsoft will get even with the mass piracy that occurs. I just feel bad for those who have to spend 10-15 minutes fixing something they legitimately own because too many people feel it is their right to install stolen software and drastic measures such as this must be taken to stop them.

[fritzi93]

Yeah, I read it. Now, I'm no expert on this, but how can it be done if you don't have WPA/WGA installed in the first place? That's not a rhetorical question. Is there any way?

Anyway, I have my doubts about this. It would be massively bad customer relations if significant numbers of legitimate users get flagged mistakenly. Or even cause for class-action lawsuits?

I repeat, maybe I'm stubborn, but what I do with my computer and my legitimate copy of XP is no business of MS.

[ROF]

Yeah, I read it. Now, I'm no expert on this, but how can it be done if you don't have WPA/WGA installed in the first place? That's not a rhetorical question. Is there any way?

Anyway, I have my doubts about this. It would be massively bad customer relations if significant numbers of legitimate users get flagged mistakenly. Or even cause for class-action lawsuits?

No WGA needed. You have windows installed which is all that is required. How Microsoft can justify WGA as a mandatory update is beyond me but I suspect their reasoning for doing so has it's roots in protecting it's software from hundreds of millions of dollars in thievery which occurs with fake windows installations. As I found out earlier this year, correcting WGA problems is simply a phone call away and can be solved before you finish smoking a cigarette or a cup of coffee.

[jimmalenko]

Yeah, I read it. Now, I'm no expert on this, but how can it be done if you don't have WPA/WGA installed in the first place? That's not a rhetorical question. Is there any way?

From what I read in that article, the installation of WGA will be mandatory, and may even get pushed out unnanounced and/or moonlighted as some other update. So then anyone who wants updates will have WGA. Dunno how you'd target those who don't do updates.

Anyway, I have my doubts about this. It would be massively bad customer relations if significant numbers of legitimate users get flagged mistakenly. Or even cause for class-action lawsuits?

I repeat, maybe I'm stubborn, but what I do with my computer and my legitimate copy of XP is no business of MS.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you purchased a license to use their software. What they choose to do with their software is out of your hands

What you choose to do with their software, however, is another matter

[ROF]

Anyway, I have my doubts about this. It would be massively bad customer relations if significant numbers of legitimate users get flagged mistakenly. Or even cause for class-action lawsuits?

I repeat, maybe I'm stubborn, but what I do with my computer and my legitimate copy of XP is no business of MS.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you purchased a license to use their software. What they choose to do with their software is out of your hands

What you choose to do with their software, however, is another matter

Careful now. Talk like that will cause others to label you as a Microsoft Shill or something. 100% true though. If you do not like what Microsoft is doing, write your own Operating System, Install another one, or deal with what Microsoft wants to do with their software. Like I said above, I own windows. I had one of my copies misidentified as not legitimate earlier this year. I called Microsoft and within 15 minutes my computer was no longer labeled as counterfeit. Microsoft understands this may effect legitimate users and is prepared to handle those people in a timely fashion.

[thevoelk]

I wonder what happens when you download the patches and install them on an offline computer. For example, the command I work for has an isolated network with no outside connections, only to other military bases and government agencies. We have to use our MSDN CDs to patch the workstations there. These workstations can't resolve microsoft.com to even validate.

And while ROF is right that a call to MS can usually be resolved in 5-10 minutes, I don't think people are going to see it this way. I had to call MS 3 times over the past 2 weeks to validate my corporate copy of Server 2003. The first time, I had to get a new key from MS that I was promised would work for our site license after the initial validation. Next server the same thing, only I called our MS rep instead of the hotline. Got a new key that let me validate, and then getting an update for the Smart Card Cryptographic Services failed the validation, less than an hour later. While I realize MS probably treats Server different than workstations, that's pretty bad a new key was flagged that quickly.

By the way ROF, you don't own Windows. You own a license to use it, same as your stance on DVDs.

[Faustus]

Lets slow down here!

He was told this by a phone grunt. Let me reveal something about being a phone grunt thats true for EVERY company.

We are the very last to be told anything, some MS rep was blowing smoke out of his butt. End of story.

[ROF]

By the way ROF, you don't own Windows. You own a license to use it, same as your stance on DVDs.

I stand corrected.

[fritzi93]

Lets slow down here!

He was told this by a phone grunt. Let me reveal something about being a phone grunt thats true for EVERY company.

We are the very last to be told anything, some MS rep was blowing smoke out of his butt. End of story.

I kinda suspected that. But it's a popular topic on the blogs, it's not just the MS haters. Maybe that's the real story, the rumor starts and Microsoft is inexcusably tardy in denying it. MS could squelch all that by explaining their policy more clearly.

[ROF]

I kinda suspected that. But it's a popular topic on the blogs, it's not just the MS haters. Maybe that's the real story, the rumor starts and Microsoft is inexcusably tardy in denying it. MS could squelch all that by explaining their policy more clearly.

It's an easy policy to understand. Don't steal any software. Stealing software has resulted in the creation of WGA. If you are not stealing software and still find yourself with an annoyance caused by WGA contact Microsoft immediately with a quick and easy resolution to follow. Simple policy, easy to follow too!

[Faustus]

Why would they want to deny it? Simply staying quiet spreads fear and confusion.

Meanwhile they've already been sued once over WGA, I don't think they are ready yet for an even harder push.

[ROF]

Why would they want to deny it? Simply staying quiet spreads fear and confusion.

Meanwhile they've already been sued once over WGA, I don't think they are ready yet for an even harder push.

Microsoft simply laughs at lawsuits. All they need to do is sell maybe 50 copies of their Office Suite to pay for any lawsuit. They can do that in the time it took me to type this.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Though a "kill switch" is certainly possible I doubt MS would activate it.As for lawsuits MS isn't laughing at them,look what the EU has done.

[BobK]

If you are not stealing software and still find yourself with an annoyance caused by WGA contact Microsoft immediately with a quick and easy resolution to follow. Simple policy, easy to follow too!

Sure- just like these people from the OP link got quick and easy resolutions:

I purchased a SEALED OEM copy of XP Professional. WGA said the license key was already used. I called MS and they said I should uninstall and buy another copy. I told them I wasn’t made of money and hung-up.

[S]ince installing WPA … I’ve had blue screens and a total inability to boot. I had to run the XP repair function to get the computer to boot. I had a damaged boot sector on the hard drive.

[ROF]

If you are not stealing software and still find yourself with an annoyance caused by WGA contact Microsoft immediately with a quick and easy resolution to follow. Simple policy, easy to follow too!

Sure- just like these people from the OP link got quick and easy resolutions:

I purchased a SEALED OEM copy of XP Professional. WGA said the license key was already used. I called MS and they said I should uninstall and buy another copy. I told them I wasn’t made of money and hung-up.

[S]ince installing WPA … I’ve had blue screens and a total inability to boot. I had to run the XP repair function to get the computer to boot. I had a damaged boot sector on the hard drive.

The first one is obvious slander, the second does not involve WGA but other issues. I have at least 400 machines all with WGA installed on them and zero issues to report except my own machine.

[Faustus]

The first one is obvious slander, the second does not involve WGA but other issues. I have at least 400 machines all with WGA installed on them and zero issues to report except my own machine.

Gotta agree with ROF on the 2nd one, WGA does do that much. It adds a couple of files and simple reg entries.

[jman98]

ROF - No offense. I respect you on the boards here and I have a positive feeling about you, but maybe you need to look up "slander" in a dictionary. Saying something like "I bought an OEM version and Microsoft said 'Too bad. Buy another one.'" doesn't even come close to slander. Slander must be false. Unless you have knowledge that this is a false report about what Microsoft told him (and how would you know unless you were there? I've seen similar reports to this elsewhere.), this is just reporting the facts.

[ROF]

ROF - No offense. I respect you on the boards here and I have a positive feeling about you, but maybe you need to look up "slander" in a dictionary. Saying something like "I bought an OEM version and Microsoft said 'Too bad. Buy another one.'" doesn't even come close to slander. Slander must be false. Unless you have knowledge that this is a false report about what Microsoft told him (and how would you know unless you were there? I've seen similar reports to this elsewhere.), this is just reporting the facts.

Really? I read yesterday that Batboy was captured by supergirl too. Am I to believe everything I read? I have dealt with Microsoft on numerous occasions. More than once I have been told by them that the Windows Key is invalid or has been listed as pirated. In 90% or more of those cases I have found this to be 100% true. The customer would mislead me to believe they had a genuine key when in fact it wasn't. What makes you think the person who wrote the comment in the link above was telling the truth? But as you point out I wasn't there, so I will revise my statement to say in my opinion the comment was slanderous.

[Morse2]

I'd be happy to see them do it!

If the rumour is true, it will just move up the timetable on my "eliminate M$ products/transition all my remaining M$ boxes to Linux" project.

More importantly it would give strength to my arguments to friends/co-workers/family members to do the same. Already using Ubuntu and Puppy Live CD's to convert the unwashed M$ heathen - and OpenSuse 10.1 for those who are really ready to make the jump.

So - go Redmond go! Take the plunge and follow those lemmings......your obnoxious WGA and "activation scheme" cost you this former customer. Let's see how many more you can lose!

All the best,
Morse

[ROF]

If the rumour is true, it will just move up the timetable on my "eliminate M$ products/transition all my remaining M$ boxes to Linux" project.

Golly Gee Wally, you need more reasons why to make switch? I always find it funny that when something goes down like this a the linux guru pops up saying, "if this is true I am switching over to non-M$ products and taking everyone with me". I have heard this so much that if Linux was truely an option Linux would have more than a niche marketplace. You just gotta laugh at such foolish statements. Especially when they say they will take their friends and family over to that mostly disfunctional operating system. Before anyone jumps in, if it was functional there would be more people using it. I know it works. I have a linux build installed at home for server purposes but I would not even think of telling my friends to use it.

[Morse2]

Hmmm, you're not reading that quite right ROF.

I already HAVE switched my primary systems over. Now it's just a case of taking the time to eliminate M$ products from the half dozen secondary systems I maintain but haven't gotten 'round to YET.

In other words, I USED to be one of those "oh, I'm so mad I'll make the switch to Linux" types - now I'm the "I'm not mad at all, I have already switched and am happy to have done so" types.

Oh well, time to erase XP from another box....

All the best,
Morse

[ROF]

Why are you here? In the time you posted you could have probably uninstalled some Microsoft product. I would presume Microsoft must have done something previously to upset you so that it should not be taking you this long for you to make the complete switch. Just do so. The rest of the world(the majority of it) will continue using windows.

[jameshgross]

I suggest that you all read, carefully, the end-user-agreement that you agreed to abide by when you opened your Windows package, MS can do anything it wants to your copy of windows. In effect you dont really OWN the copy of Windows, its more of a perament lease agreement.
I to have had some problems with WGA, a call to MS and the ability to prove that I really did own the copy of Windows resulted in a quick fix to my problem.
How would you feel if your business was losing 1 to 5 billion dollars to pirates.

[Dv8ted2]

Sadly, I still see this as too little, to late.

If Microsoft were to do something, they should have done something from the moment that 95 and 98 were swapped like crazy. This is like sinking and throwing the water out one bucket at a time, which is ineffective at best.

[ROF]

Sadly, I still see this as too little, to late.

If Microsoft were to do something, they should have done something from the moment that 95 and 98 were swapped like crazy. This is like sinking and throwing the water out one bucket at a time, which is ineffective at best.

As the updates to the updater have shown maybe the technology was not available to do this effectively back in the previous millenium?

[JohnnyMalaria]

If Microsoft were to do something, they should have done something from the moment that 95 and 98 were swapped like crazy. This is like sinking and throwing the water out one bucket at a time, which is ineffective at best.

Not really, 95 and 98 were consumer versions - built on a weird 16-bit/32-bit hybrid platform with all the pitfalls of 3.x - i.e., one program crashes and goodbye everyone. XP (even the Home version) is based on the NT kernel. A different beast and worth protecting. MS made some money from 95 and 98 but not as much as from NT3.51 and NT4.0 in the corporate world.

Personally, Who Gives A ---- (WGA) - the owner of the intellectual property you have licensed has a right to protect its property. Since even entire governments seeming unwilling to clamp down on the blatant piracy, they have little choice. The amount of "cheap OEM softwares [sic]" spam I get borders on insanity (next to vLagra and ro - lex spam.)

As an alternative, join the Microsoft ISV program and get all their products for less than $400 - for the whole lot!