MPEG1 recording

[ricmac]

Is anyone aware of a DVD recorder that records any of its recording modes in MPEG1. The Liteon 5005 will do this in SLP mode, but my experience with Liteon machines has not been favorable. I need something that can actually be relied upon to work as intended.

[Bjs]

Mpeg1 need's encoding to mpeg2 to be authored for dvd .

Bbmpeg support's and encode's all format's that ifoedit support's for dvd authoring .

Open mpeg1 in vdub and frameserve it to bbmpeg to encode to mpeg2 ... many option's available .

[ricmac]

Mpeg1 need's encoding to mpeg2 to be authored for dvd .

Bbmpeg support's and encode's all format's that ifoedit support's for dvd authoring .

Open mpeg1 in vdub and frameserve it to bbmpeg to encode to mpeg2 ... many option's available .

Thanks for this. I didn't make myself clear in my original email. The problem is that I want MPEG1 files for archiving purposes, and I don't want to have to convert MPEG2 to MPEG1. I want to take the MPEG1 file on the DVD directly from the DVD recorder and archive it. Which means that I have to use a Liteon (of which I'm not a big fan), or another recorder that has the same feature as the Liteon.

[harmlessgryphon]

There used to be a device called the Terrapin VCD recorder that wrote MPEG1 directly to a CD-R to make a VCD compliant disc on the fly.

They were expensive and horribly ugly to boot - imagine a regular audio/video component that mated with a turtle and you have this device.



You can find a specs, and a link to a review here: http://www.videoguys.com/terapin.html

As far as I know, they aren't made anymore, but you may be able to pick on up on eBay.

More out of curiosity than anything else, why do you want to use MPEG1?

Mpeg1 need's encoding to mpeg2 to be authored for dvd .

MPEG1 (VCD) can be put on to a DVD as long as the audio is sampled at 48KHz. The video can be left alone. Most modern DVD author programs don't seem to be capable of doing this. Try for a copy of the old SpruceUp! if you ever decide to take your MPEG1 to DVD.

[ZippyP.]

Mpeg1 need's encoding to mpeg2 to be authored for dvd .

MPEG1 (VCD) can be put on to a DVD as long as the audio is sampled at 48KHz. The video can be left alone. Most modern DVD author programs don't seem to be capable of doing this. Try for a copy of the old SpruceUp! if you ever decide to take your MPEG1 to DVD.

352x240 mpeg1 is VCD and DVD spec. TDA will resample the audio from 44->48 KHz during authoring.

[ricmac]

Thanks to everyone who has responded. A lot of it is over my head, but I'll sort it all out eventually.

I've seen the Terrapin that harmlessgryphon talks about, but haven't drilled down very far. I can't seem to find a website for them any more and I don't want to get into a machine that I can't acquire new in some quantity. Also, as far as I'm aware a VCD recording won't go much longer than an hour (using a 700 mb CD). I need to go longer.

Quote: More out of curiosity than anything else, why do you want to use MPEG1?

I'm setting up a system for someone who currently has a large archive of MPEG1s. I haven't spent any time with him to figure out if he really needs to do it this way, and I can't see why he does. I first want to see if it can be reasonably done, and my sense is - No, it can't. My hope was that someone would have a unit that did what I wanted, that would require just a push of the REC button to start recording in MPEG1. But even if Liteon were reliable enough (which it's not), you have to go through the "Guider" system to record anything.

[festmaster]

The Terapin recorder is hard to find because they spell it with only one "r". Their site is (was) at www.terapintech.com. I have one of the beasts but have not used it for over a year. What I liked it for was copying a DVD to VCD so I could play a movie on my old company issued laptop that had very little multimedia software or horsepower. It was very quick for this application. Yes, you can only put about 1 hour of MPEG-1 on a CD-R. However, if your intent is to archive MPEG-1 files, why not just burn them to a DVD-R in data mode? Many set top DVD/DIVX players have no problem playing MPEG-1's from a data DVD-R so burned.

[Cornucopia]

I also have a Terapin VCD recorder, also haven't really used it in ~1year. That doesn't make it crap, per se, but software MPEG1 encoding w/TMPGEnc, Mainconcept, BBMPEG, CCE, even Panasonic are SO MUCH BETTER in quality overall, that it never really has been worth it for me unless I wanted quick & dirty. One good thing about it though is that it can also record AudioCD's in realtime. And, BTW, they can use up to the full 74/80 min. of the disc either way.

Nonetheless, for your needs there are much better solutions, even going MPEG1.
You could get a PC & capture card that can be set to encode in realtime in MPEG1. Using the right kind of software for your needs may just give you the "point & click REC" that you'd like. Then you could make XVCD (higher quality/rez/bitrate) MPEG1's also.

Scott

[ricmac]

The Terapin site that festmaster provided is dead, which leads me to believe that they're not making 'em any more.

Quote from Cornucopia: Nonetheless, for your needs there are much better solutions, even going MPEG1. You could get a PC & capture card that can be set to encode in realtime in MPEG1. Using the right kind of software for your needs may just give you the "point & click REC" that you'd like. Then you could make XVCD (higher quality/rez/bitrate) MPEG1's also.

I take this to mean that I would record my bog-standard DVD-R on my bog-standard Pansonic DVD recorder, take it out, put it in the computer and run it through a conversion file, coming out the other end with an MPEG1 file, which I could then burn over to a blank DVD-R. If this is the correct interpretation, two questions:
1) Can you suggest any such software? Would something like NERO do it?
2) Is the conversion in real time, or can it be speeded up?

Thanks.

[Cornucopia]

This ISN'T what I was talking about
(though you could do that, using Nero, TMPGEnc, etc--but probably not realtime).


No, I'm just talking about using a regular PC (w DVD burner). Add a capture card, like some of the ATI's or Haupages. They often come with "capturing" or "recording" apps bundled, but you can find good ones listed here [<--CaptureCards] and elsewhere on the net, often for free.
Most of those cards give you a choice of codec with which to capture at. Choose MPEG1/VCD.
If it isn't on the list, you can always DL a VFW/Dshow-compatible one from the net (they're out there).[<--TOOLS]

So then you would:
1. Fire up the PC
2. Start the capture app (or have it sked to come on at a particular time...)
3. Hit "record". Stop when done. Save the file. Should be an MPEG1 system stream.
4. Collect a bunch to fill up a disc (data CD or data DVD, using ISO and/or UDF as expected). Burn.

They probably don't make it anymore, but there used to be a "Broadway" capture card that was particularly good at this.

This assumes you have inputs that are composite/Svideo, etc. Tuner cards can do similar things, but w/ the channels as input instead of external inputs. Some cards do both.

Scott

>>>>>>>>>
BTW, what is "BOG-standard"? Never heard that one before.

[jagabo]

I had a chance to play around with a Panasonic ES15 DVD recorder a while back. I saved a few samples for reference. When recording in 6 or 8 hour modes it creates VOB files with MPEG1 video at 352x240, audio at 48KHz, AC3.

[ricmac]

I had a chance to play around with a Panasonic ES15 DVD recorder a while back. I saved a few samples for reference. When recording in 6 or 8 hour modes it creates VOB files with MPEG1 video at 352x240, audio at 48KHz, AC3.

OK, more research for me. Looking at the glossary for this site I see the definition of VOB includes this sentence - All VOB files are essentially MPEG2 Program streams with audio, video, sub-picture and navigation data multiplexed. On another discussion group a post reads i have a choice to convert .ifo and .vob to MPEG1 or 2 using ideo 9. Meantime, when I open a certain video file (that I'm told is recorded in MPEG1) via the menu in PowerDVD 6.0, the properties show that it's MPEG1. When I open thesame video via its .VOB file in the same program, the properties show it to be MPEG2. And when I open the file via the menu in Nero, it shows as MPEG1.

I guess we're getting 'way off topic here, but can anyone steer me to a 25 page or less website that explains all these apparent anomalies?

BTW, I recorded 6 and 8 hour modes on a Panasonic E55 and they're both MPEG2, so there seems to be a change in format somewhere between the E55 and the ES15 (via the ES10 and ES20). Four models (or more?) in a year. It's hard to keep up.......

[SingSing]

This cut and paste from the "what is" section about DVD on this site :

DVD NTSC (NTSC Film)

Video:
Up to 9.8 Mbps* (9800 kbps*) MPEG2 video
Up to 1.856 Mbps (1856 kbps) MPEG1 video
720 x 480 pixels MPEG2 (Called Full-D1)
704 x 480 pixels MPEG2
352 x 480 pixels MPEG2 (Called Half-D1, same as the CVD Standard)
352 x 240 pixels MPEG2
352 x 240 pixels MPEG1 (Same as the VCD Standard)
29,97 fps*
23,976 fps with 3:2 pulldown = 29,97 playback fps (NTSC Film, this is only supported by MPEG2 video)
16:9 Anamorphic (only supported by 720x480)


Audio:
48000 Hz
32 - 1536 kbps
Up to 8 audio tracks containing DD (Dolby Digital/AC3), DTS, PCM(uncompressed audio), MPEG-1 Layer2. One audio track must have DD or PCM Audio.

Extras:
Motion menus, still pictures, up to 32 selectable subtitles, seamless branching for multiple storylines, 9 camera angles. And also additional DVD-ROM / data files that only can be read by computer DVD drives.

Total:
Total bitrate including video, audio and subs can be max 10.08 Mbps (10080 kbps)


* Mbps = million bits per second
* kbps = thousand bits per second
* fps = frames per second

[ricmac]

I had a chance to play around with a Panasonic ES15 DVD recorder a while back. I saved a few samples for reference. When recording in 6 or 8 hour modes it creates VOB files with MPEG1 video at 352x240, audio at 48KHz, AC3.

I tried the EP mode (6 or 8 hour) on the DMR-E55 and the DMR-ES20. The ES20 produced and MPEG1 file, just as jagabo reports that the ES15 does. However, the older E55 produces an MPEG2 file in that mode.

Out of curiosity, why would Panasonic change the EP format to older technology on newer machines?

[jman98]

Just a guess - Some people think that MPEG-1 is better than MPEG-2 at lower bit rates. Having said that, I have seen some amazing work in MPEG-2 at very low bit rates that involved multipass CBR encodes. It wasn't as good as DVD but it was better than it should have been at the bit rate. Since DVD recorders are doing on the fly recording and not multipass recording for obvious reasons, it may be that for a single pass CBR recording that MPEG-1 produces better results at the lower bit rates needed for 6-8 mode than MPEG-2.

[Cornucopia]

A point of clarification:

DVD-Video "VOB" files are basically SUPER-mpeg2 program streams, meaning they do all that MPEG2 Program streams do and a little more (supporting subs, LPCM and other non-AC3/MP2 audio, navigation, etc).

MPEG2 Program streams support muxing MPEG1 or MPEG2 video streams (so VOBs can too!) and they support muxing AC3 or MPEG audio streams (so VOBs can too!). Try it sometime with TMPGEnc--it works...

When you record with a Panny DVD-recorder, it's making VOBs, which would be interpreted as equivalent to MPEG2 program streams on your computer. What's inside could be MPEG1 or MPEG2 video (or possibly both). Sound like the Panny is giving some additional rate/quality options (not necessarily a step backwards).

BTW, MPEG2 352x240 is part of the SP@ML spec and is nearly identical to the MPEG1 352x240 CIF/SIF spec.

Sounds like the OP needs to decide on which method depending on needs:
1. DVD-recorder, for simple transfers/copies from VCR & capping off-air with little setup/worries.
-or-
2. Cap card, burner in computer, for compilations, editing, & some off-air or off-tape capping, but more setup needed.

Scott