Can't beat the 4GB limit on Win98...

[sweetfreek]

I have no idea how many people are plagued by this matter (many I woulkd think), nor do I have any idea if any one knows a way yet to read/write beyond 4GB with software running in Win98 (few I would imagine).

To test out a theory of mine, I set up a NetBEUI file-sharing connection over an Ethernet between a Win98 and an XP machine. From the Win98 machine I used VirtualDubMod to read a 6.2GB avi (divx5 @ 3kbps) that was hosted on the XP machine. It didn't crash but VirtualDubMod simply couldn't see beyond 4GB addressing. I do not believe that this is a limit inside of VirtualDubMod since it was written to handle ultra-large files (and from the XP side did quite well) but I thought was strange was that was no error message of any kind except that VirtualDubMod attempting to reconstruct the file's "missing index block". Summary VirtualDubMod believed the file to be 4GB simply because the file/print-sharing method didn't report it back as larger--I think--and gave it a truncated VIEW of the file.

If anybody on this board would like to add more to this fascinating subject then please do so.

[sweetfreek]

Also I should have mentioned this but the file's contents were read as though the file was corrupt. I don't know if the space beyond 4GB was cycled back to the beginning of the addressing table or it was just missing.

[redwudz]

It's not the OS, Win 98 in this case, it's the limitation of the FAT32 file system that the OS uses for the hard drives. The NTFS file system that XP and other OS's use don't have this limitation.

[waheed]

redwudz is correct. The problem is not with virtualdubmod, its the file sytem used.

FAT32 has a maximum limitation of 4 GB, regardless of what software is used. You will need to use NTFS file system for files larger than 4 GB.

Unfortunately, Win 98 cannot be used on NFTS file system so you would need to upgrade to Win XP in order to use NTFS.

[guns1inger]

However you can get utilities that will let a win98 machine read/write to/from NTFS file systems, so you could work on files on your XP machine - assuming it is using NTFS.

[sweetfreek]

Do you know of any utilities I could use to do this?

[SLK001]

You CAN use NTFS on a Win98 system using special drivers. Do a Yahoo search.

[Doramius]

FAT32 at the time DVDs were JUST coming out on the WIN98 systems was a big reason why XP runs in NTFS. Unless there's a specific reason why you are running 98, I'd suggest installing XP. I can't really say upgrade, because a simple upgrade will put XP on a FAT32 system. However, XP on a FAT32 system will let you work with NTFS.

If you insist on using 98, then google the utilities. they work pretty good too.

[bmiller]

I used this and it worked great.
http://www.ntfs.com/quest3.htm
here is another link.
http://www.tech-recipes.com/windows_tips474.html

[studtrooper]

FAT32 at the time DVDs were JUST coming out on the WIN98 systems was a big reason why XP runs in NTFS.

Not really. Nearly every DVD out has a VOB structure that is split into 1GB files so as to not cause interference with the outdated FAT32. XP implemented NTFS simpily because it was superior in nearly every way (capacity, speed, etc).

[scottoinkingsburg]

Even though DVD's are structured in a UDF file format which does not allow a file to be over 1GB in size (thats why the big vob video files are broken into 1023MB sections) you will need to make files greater than 4GB when editing video before burning the video to DVD. Like some people said before, you will need an OS that runs a NTFS file system such as windows 2000 or XP. I use windows 2000. Cause even if you are encoding your avi videos with a DV codec you will still need 4.35GB for every 17-18 minutes of video. If your encoding to totally uncompressed avi video you can expect to use about 1GB for about every minute of video. And if you are doing the totally uncompressed video you might run into the notorious 138GB barrier. I believe this problem is due to 32bit OS systems. I think once new 64 bit OS systems come out the 138GB barrier problem will no longer be an issue. I know 32bit machines will run into the 2038 problem, which is similar to the Y2K scare, but considering that 64 bit OS software is in the very near future, this will not be a problem. I am interested to see how many problems arise when people start using optical media that stores well over 138GB such as multiple layer BD's and HVD's (they are in development and can store 1TB of storage).

[vhelp]

I'm still running WIN98 also.

Capturing w/ 4Gig limits under WIN98 ...

To get around the 4g limit, I utilize "segmentation". This is a method
designed for capture situations, where you cannot go past 4g, and what
this does is *break* the capture into pieces when it reaches a certain
"user defined" size max, ie.. say I set limit to 1G capture sizes. Then
every 1G, my capture app breaks (stops) the captures writing at the 1G
(or whatever dos/win limit/spec is) and write out the .AVI file in that
1g chunk, and starts another 1G capture file, and continues.. .. ..

DVD Authroing w/ 4Gig limits under WIN98 ...

From my on-going experiences with making DVD authored disks, (as one user
above posted) DVD are limited (or set to) 1G chunks. For whatever the
reason, I don't know for sure. But, I don't care. I've been able to
produce many DVD's this way, under my WIN98 4g limit.

In fact, I don't think that today's DVD Authoring apps support greater
than 1G VOB files. I think its something to do with the DVD players
have to read in the file specs and be able to handle the through-put
that the dvd player requires. I could be wrong on this assumption, but
it doesn't really matter.

Lets see, thanks to scottoinkingsburg, I was playing around with numbers
and.. (correct me if i'm wrong anywheres)

  1MB is     1,000,000 to 999,000,000
100MB is   100,000,000 to 999,000,000
  1GB is 1,000,000,000 to 999,000,000,000
  1TB is ? -- my brain doesn't hold enough zero's

-vhelp 3828

[sweetfreek]

My main objective is to read files larer than 4GB over a Lan Network from a 98 machine.
I would assume that it MIGHT be possible with the right tools to make a program running in 98 (or maybe even 98 itself) reach beyond that limit.

You CAN use NTFS on a Win98 system using special drivers. Do a Yahoo search.

I don't need to read NTFS per se since I'm using NetBEUI to do it, but NetBEUI isn't really a file reading tool... it simply passing instructions to other machines which interpret them as they understand them. Thtais all fine and dandy regardless of what partition format is used just as long as the features use are compatible, hence the reason 98 and any programs running in it can read up to 4GB but not beyond.

This is essentially my problem, and it is the direct result of several programs that I use that are not as accomidating as they ideally would be.

QuEnc is wonderful tool (even if I can't force I-frames at listed points), but every vob I create with it is always in one piece and I don't have any utilities to break them up.

DVDAuthorGUI is another wonderful little program, but it will not accept split vob files.

Now these two limitations have no effect on each other, but there are serveral other matters that get factored in, and so I often have to use Nero Vision Express 2 as my main video encoder to get around various difficulties (though sometimes just for the sake of convenience).

Different projects require different tools... so each time the rules change. But of all the different obstacles I've faced, this one problem seems to get me the most often.

[Soopafresh]

Probably not related, but


http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/NtfsWindows98.html

[kenmo]

If I understand the original poster... The Windows 98 pc should not have been affected by the FAT32 limit... As it was a Windows XP computer that was hosting the file... Unless he was writing the file back to a local drive on the Win98 computer...

So a Win98 computer should be able to write a file larger then 4gbs to a Windows Xp NTFS shared drive (or a Win200 NTFS shared drive, a Netware volume or Linux partition)...

The Windows 98 pc would only be limited when writing to it's own local drive which would be FAT32...

[Doramius]

That's the point being made. He was trying to write it to his local drive on the 98 machine.

Good thought to point out though.

[INFRATOM]

Win XP does not support NetBui, Win 98 was not designed for todays tasks and win98 generation computer and non of those computers had resources needed right now not mentioning CPU instructions. Economy rules a pentium4 computer selling for $200 win98 is doomed that's why they retired it.

[Doramius]

I wish my company would retire their Win98 PCs. And the WinNT PCs too. When I say Win98, I mean it's not the 98SE.

[sweetfreek]

If I understand the original poster...

No, you evidently don't.

The Windows 98 pc should not have been affected by the FAT32 limit... As it was a Windows XP computer that was hosting the file...

Wrong! The FAT32 limit is a Win98 problem regardless of where the files are hosted.

Unless he was writing the file back to a local drive on the Win98 computer...

Ditto.

So a Win98 computer should be able to write a file larger then 4gbs...

Now what have I just said?!

to a Windows Xp NTFS shared drive (or a Win200 NTFS shared drive, a Netware volume or Linux partition)...

...as long as they are no more than 4GB!

The Windows 98 pc would only be limited when writing to it's own local drive which would be FAT32...

...but you didn't really read my posts, now did you?!

[The_Doman]

So a Win98 computer should be able to write a file larger then 4gbs to a Windows Xp NTFS shared drive (or a Win200 NTFS shared drive, a Netware volume or Linux partition)...

This will indeed work.
I have done this with my early DVD/MPEG2 experiments with Windows 98, rendering MPEG2 files bigger then 4gigabyte to a NTFS shared drive. 8)

[Doramius]

How did you get a >4GB file on a 98 system without special software to be able to send to a NTFS shared drive?

I have seen people with 2 drives on their PC and the slave is NTFS. THis I've seen work, but if you are using Win98, I have yet to see them download or save a >4GB file to the local drive where Win98 resides. The same for people who have XP upgrades on a FAT32 system. You're still caught by the restriction of 4GB on FAT32 regardless. You have to have some special software to bypass this. I'm not exactly sure how each one works as some are a bit different, but I'm sure it involves breaking it down into sections and putting them back together once saved or installed.

[sweetfreek]

I created some large avi/divx files (less than 4GB) in the 98 machine, and then sent them over to the XP machine where I used Virtualdub to combine them into a single file (on the XP machine). The file was not corrupt (I checked that) but it was unreadable from the 98 machine.

In other words I was unable to read (using virtualdub) a huge file over a shared network.