HDDVD vs BluRay -- who cares? many folks could opt out....

[Xylob the Destroyer]

some folks are thinking that things like video-on-demand & DVR's could seriously cut into the popularity of whichever format "wins".

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/25/technology/25cnd-format.html

[yoda313]

Now that I have a hdtv capture card I can start to see the value of recordable "next gen" media. I'd like to be able to author the tp file right after capture rather than the laborious downconversion that I don't quite have downpat. Being able to author a .tp file like a mpg file would be great.

Even though I don't have a hdtv set being able to watch it right after recording would be great.

[RabidDog]

We will all be "transitioned" to HD whether we like it or not ..
Encouraged to "engage" with new hi standard media.
"progress" to higher quality images
"upgrade" from old, bad, lo-def DVD's...

ZERE will be NO choice!! seig heil!

[ROF]

I don't even care which format wins. It will be nice to backup 20GB+ of data to a single disc.

[SilverBlade]

I'm personally waiting for the holographic discs...

[Dv8ted2]

We will all be "transitioned" to HD whether we like it or not ..
Encouraged to "engage" with new hi standard media.
"progress" to higher quality images
"upgrade" from old, bad, lo-def DVD's...

ZERE will be NO choice!! seig heil!

Remember that the consumer votes with his wallet, and that if the customer doesn't want it then it will die. That is what happened to the divx format that Circuit City was pushing.

[ROF]

Remember that the consumer votes with his wallet, and that if the customer doesn't want it then it will die. That is what happened to the divx format that Circuit City was pushing.

Most consumers are already finding 8 GB discs to be too small. Holographic Tech is too far off to consider and also considerably more expensive to mass produce. The divx example is not really reliable in this situation. That was parallel technology not next gen technology.

[ebenton]

I have a Sony 42" LCD-projection HDTV that I bought in December 2004. When I view a regular 8GB DVD on this TV, I do not really notice an appreciable difference between a 480p DVD and 720P HD broadcasts.

Sometimes, if I backup a DVD using DVD Shrink and high compression, I notice macro blocks. However, I can always fix this by going back and re-copying the DVD with movie-only or use some other method to get the compression to as close to 100% as possible, if it's that important to me.

However, most of the time I feel the difference is minimal. I have a Pioneer DV-563A DVD player with progressive scan output and a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR for a cable box, so I do not think that there is some hardware difference making the two signals appear similar to me. Maybe I'm just not a discerning-enough viewer.

In any case, I myself find 8GB disks perfectly acceptable and am not eagerly awaiting 25GB disks. I obviously can't speak for others.

[whitejremiah]

i can give everyone a few examples of superior technology failing......this is just in a video standpoint, mind you...first off, you have beta...better than VHS in literally every respect....FAILED....then you have laser disc...also better than VHS in every respect...also FAILED main reason for this is because once people get their videos in any particular format, they dont tend to want to re purchase everything all over again...in some cases, this can consist of THOUSANDS of movies for some people....i don't know what will happen with HD-DVD or blu ray, all i will say is this, VHS took something like 25 years to be pretty much completely replaced, and i believe DVD is literally going to end up being our new VHS...lower quality than some of the alternitives, but until something REALLY superior comes along, most people wont convert their stuff over...heck, i know a BUNCH of people that dont even OWN an HDTV (MYSELF INCLUDED!!!!!) and until they (and myself) do, i dont think there's any good reason to convert over. The only use 25gb discs have from my standpoint is data storage...thats all. I'm not too sure that im all about the holographic discs, at the same time, though, because those things will be able to hold more in one disc than all my hdd space combined, so that would render it almost useless to me, as i could never really fill it to capasity.

[jhotmann]

i agree with whitejremiah, i dont want to go out and spend $1000 or more on an hdtv and also buy a new blueray or hddvd player too. dvds are perfectly good quality for me. And the hologram technology may pay off for companies using servers or something but i dont think i will need a terabite of space on a disk for many many years.

[waheed]

We will all be "transitioned" to HD whether we like it or not ..
Encouraged to "engage" with new hi standard media.
"progress" to higher quality images
"upgrade" from old, bad, lo-def DVD's...

ZERE will be NO choice!! seig heil!

Not neccessarily. Look at DVD AUDIO and SACD as an example, both far more superior formats than the Audio CD and both High Resolution Audio. They both have failed miserably.

[henry_nettles]

Look at DVD AUDIO and SACD as an example, both far more superior formats than the Audio CD and both High Resolution Audio. They both have failed miserably.

There is one very important difference. The average consumer, in a double-blind listening test, would not be able to differentiate between a well done MP3 file and SACD. The same average consumer could instantly tell the difference between a well done HDTV picture and a well done DVD picture.

But... (you knew there was a but, didn't ya?) This easily discerned difference is simply not worth thousands of dollars to me. Maybe it is to you (and more power to you), but not to me.

I paid $600 for my first cd recorder, and $6 each for blanks. My first dvd recorder set me back $350, and blanks were around $1.50. When blu-ray or HD fall into this ball park, I will consider a purchase. On the other hand, if DRM is too all encompassing, then I will still pass.

[hhipster35ca]

Just a quick question, this is all new to me. Will the new players be backwards compatable. Will they still be able to play the DVD's that we are all buying now??

Thanks

[robertazimmerman]

[quote="henry_nettles"]

There is one very important difference. The average consumer, in a double-blind listening test, would not be able to differentiate between a well done MP3 file and SACD. The same average consumer could instantly tell the difference between a well done HDTV picture and a well done DVD picture.

Have you tried this? Not only is there a significant (& laughable) difference between 320kbps MP3 and SACD, but the qualitative difference is easily discernible when listening to regular Red Book CDs.

The "average consumer" simply needs to know what to listen for and then the differences become obvious. If you can't hear the difference, then you will save significant sums of money by not needing/wanting to acquire quality audio components. More power to you. But, please speak only for yourself, not for "the average consumer", of which I consider myself to be (please excuse the bad grammar).

roberta

[ROF]

What's laughable is that you call yourself the average consumer while the average consumer doesn't even know SACD exists and believes anything with an HDTV label is the best in high definition quality.

[gadgetguy]

the average consumer while the average consumer doesn't even know SACD exists and believes anything with an HDTV label is the best in high definition quality.

And believes whatever the salesman at (insert any electronics store here) tells them.

[yoda313]

Just a quick question, this is all new to me. Will the new players be backwards compatable. Will they still be able to play the DVD's that we are all buying now??

Thanks

Yes they will play regular dvds.

[robertazimmerman]

What's laughable is that you call yourself the average consumer while the average consumer doesn't even know SACD exists and believes anything with an HDTV label is the best in high definition quality.

I see you're the spokesman for the "average consumer" once again.

What's an "average consumer"? A guy who buys Sony receivers, JBL speakers, a $199 CD player and feels that he has a good system? Someone who visits videohelp.com regularly? Someone who walks into an A/V store and buys what the salesman recommends without doing any homework before walking in?

Please tell me what your definition of the "average consumer" is and then we'll know whether you're qualified to speak on our behalf.

roberta

[ROF]

What's laughable is that you call yourself the average consumer while the average consumer doesn't even know SACD exists and believes anything with an HDTV label is the best in high definition quality.

I see you're the spokesman for the "average consumer" once again.

What's an "average consumer"? A guy who buys Sony receivers, JBL speakers, a $199 CD player and feels that he has a good system? Someone who visits videohelp.com regularly? Someone who walks into an A/V store and buys what the salesman recommends without doing any homework before walking in?

Please tell me what your definition of the "average consumer" is and then we'll know whether you're qualified to speak on our behalf.

roberta

See Gadgetguys reply. There's one good example. Ask a few random people if they've heard the quality listening experience provided by the SACD standard. The blank stares you will receive are average customers.

[gadgetguy]

What's an "average consumer"?

That sounds like a good poll question.

[robertazimmerman]

[quote="ROF"]

Please tell me what your definition of the "average consumer" is and then we'll know whether you're qualified to speak on our behalf.

roberta

See Gadgetguys reply. There's one good example. Ask a few random people if they've heard the quality listening experience provided by the SACD standard. The blank stares you will receive are average customers.

No. This is a group of consumers who do not know about higher resolution audio reproduction. Ask a group of A/V consumers if they know about, or would be interested in knowing about higher resolution audio reproduction and you may have completely different responses.

My point is that there is no "average consumer". People who are interested in SACD represent a group who may appreciate the advantages of higher resolution. Ask an "average consumer" if he/she knows about Wankel engines or about parboiling vegetables and you will get the same blank stares. This does not make the products or processes irrelevent.

roberta

[gadgetguy]

Everyone that has purchased a TV is an A/V consumer. But the vast majority of them would not know what SACD is, and I would call these the average consumer. Those that know about SACD I would consider elite (or above average, if you will). This can be applied to any product/service and someone can be both an average consumer in one area and an elite in another at the same time. In fact, it's unlikely that anyone could be an "average consumer" across the board. But you can't be both an elite and average consumer for the same product/process/service.

[ROF]

Please tell me what your definition of the "average consumer" is and then we'll know whether you're qualified to speak on our behalf.

roberta

See Gadgetguys reply. There's one good example. Ask a few random people if they've heard the quality listening experience provided by the SACD standard. The blank stares you will receive are average customers.

No. This is a group of consumers who do not know about higher resolution audio reproduction. Ask a group of A/V consumers if they know about, or would be interested in knowing about higher resolution audio reproduction and you may have completely different responses.

My point is that there is no "average consumer". People who are interested in SACD represent a group who may appreciate the advantages of higher resolution. Ask an "average consumer" if he/she knows about Wankel engines or about parboiling vegetables and you will get the same blank stares. This does not make the products or processes irrelevent.

roberta

Relevance of a technology or product and the average consumers knowledge of it do not equate in any universe. Ask your average person what they think about blue laser technology. Some will know a little, some will know alot, and yet still others will think you are talking about a Star Wars Blasters color. Those are average consumers. Some know, some know a little, and some know nothing at all. The relevance of the product makes no difference.

Ask computer users about Sony's Rootkit and you'll get the same groupings. There are people who know al about it, people who heard about it but know very little, and then there are still others who think a rootkit is a package of material an Orthodontist gives you before surgery. Those are all average consumers. Yet their differing knowledge of this doesn't make the rootkit any more or less relevant. It only shows that the average consumer either knows alot, knows very little, or knows nothing at all.

If you only ask those who specifically fall into the category of having the most knowledge on any subject you are not speaking of the average consumer. You are also not showing the relevance of the subject either. You are merely targeting those with the most knowledge and ignoring the "average".

[guns1inger]

I thought a rootkit was a bottle of Vodka and Lemon and a condom - but that may be a uniquely Australian perspective

[mbellot]

first off, you have beta...better than VHS in literally every respect....FAILED.

Sorry, but Beta was much worse in one very telling respect. Capacity. With VHS capable of 6 hours on a single tape Beta never had a chance with the general population.


If CDs/DVDs degraded and wore out like audio/video tapes I doubt they would have caught on either. It was the relative "permanance" that caught alot of people's initial attention. Which is also one of the reasons Circuit City's DIVX failed.

My point is that there is no "average consumer". People who are interested in SACD represent a group who may appreciate the advantages of higher resolution. Ask an "average consumer" if he/she knows about Wankel engines or about parboiling vegetables and you will get the same blank stares. This does not make the products or processes irrelevent.

The problem is that unless the number of people interested in SACD (or Wankel engines) is high enough it will fail in the marketplace unless artificially supported by the company(ies) producing it or the price is sufficiently higher to offset the volume difference.

Parboiling veggies does not apply since veggies won't be discontinued simply because people fail to parboil them.

[shelbyGT]

Considering that it costs less for me now to get video on demand and play it during any time in a 24 hour period than it does to get the same movie from blockbuster... I for one am all about it!

[robertazimmerman]

<Ask your average person what they think about blue laser technology. Some will know a little, some will know alot, and yet still others will think you are talking about a Star Wars Blasters color. Those are average consumers. Some know, some know a little, and some know nothing at all.>

An "average consumer" to me is someone who is neither completely ignorant about a product or technology nor is particularly knowledgeable about them. That's the way I see it and it does not make it right. My concern however is not so much "who" this average consumer is, but the way people generalize about what he/she wants or doesn't want. We can only speak for ourselves.

<If you only ask those who specifically fall into the category of having the most knowledge on any subject you are not speaking of the average consumer.>

Of course.

<...You are also not showing the relevance of the subject either. You are merely targeting those with the most knowledge and ignoring the "average".>

Not my point. I'm just saying there is no "average consumer", or if there is one, we can't define who he/she is. I also take umbrage at those who take it upon themselves to speak for these undefinable people, as I am sure that there are many so-called "average consumers" who don't agree with the points made on their behalf.

roberta

[yoda313]

I would say if you found and use videohelp.com regularly you are not a "average consumer"

[SatStorm]

"Average" is a very complicated meaning. For example, the European average costumer, differs a lot the American or the Australian average costumer.

Also, I believe there is a misunderstanding between the average costumer and average consumer.

The so called "average Joe" is the average Consumer.
The average costumer knows the basics. That's why is a costumer

[guns1inger]

I'm guessing you mean customer. The average costumer makes clown suits and dress ups for halloween