SSA with overlapping subs to srt with merging function?

[ericf]

I've tried to convert ssa with overlapping subs to srt but there are no programs that can convert them and merge the overlapping subs instead of keeping them separate. They tend to be placed at the wrong places as well so I have to look through the file and copy/paste the overlapping subs at the correct place and then manually merge lines.

Example of problem:
File starts at
00:00:00,500 --> 00:00:04,000
and continues to
00:01:49,930 --> 00:01:55,930
then they restart at
00:00:42,030 --> 00:00:47,730
and go to
00:01:49,930 --> 00:01:55,930
and another restart
00:00:55,450 --> 00:01:01,790
and go to
00:01:36,710 --> 00:01:39,710

Is this just sloppy subtitle work on the subbers part or is this commonly accepted?

Is there at least an application where I can sort the subs according to the srt timing and, if possible, one that can make clear that subs are overlapping in the graphics? It's quite a lot of work just to check that.
I know I can sort the subs in Subtitle Workshop but there is no indicator of overlapping subs.

Another thing. Most ssa subs nowadays doesn't work in the old Sub Station Alpha 4.08. All you get is one line with everything crammed in.
What program are they using to make bad SSA files?

ericf

[kschang]

In SubTitle Workshop, you have to do "Check for Errors", and let it run. THEN it'll tell you about overlaps.

[ericf]

Thanks. So does Subtitle Edit.
No program I've read about is intelligent enough to combine and separate subtitles that overlap.
Strange that no one has made one since that is one of the biggest problems with Srt compared to SSA.
ericf

[mikiem]

If it helps...

"Is this just sloppy subtitle work on the subbers part or is this commonly accepted? "

I haven't seen too much sloppy work, but the source of many subs is pulling them out of content -- isn't going to be foolproof I think unless you demux & re-use existing graphics overlay. Perhaps might have better results if used something besides ssa to start with?

RE: Overlap... As posted, in Subtitle Workshop error checking will notify you of errors, and correct then if you set it to. AN alternative might be to flag only overlap errors, then use shortcut keys from help file to jump from one to next. In any case, to join hold ctrl key down, select 2 sub captions, press "k" I think, still holding down ctrl key.

"Strange that no one has made one since that is one of the biggest problems with Srt compared to SSA. "

Actually haven't had a lot of problems with srt files, or overlapping etc. -- it's not the format, which is simply a text file listing times anyway.

[kschang]

Besides, a lot of subtitlting is really up to the editor's tastes.

I was messing around with Subtitle Workshop when I decided to rewrite the English subtitles I got with the Chinese edition of Initial D (let me tell you, that English is ATROCIOUS) and I got all sorts of errors here and there, bad syncs, and some stuff that's practically UNTRANSLATABLE due to amount of double entendere's in the Chinese/Cantonese language. *sigh* And given the limited amount of space and time given to a few words in subtitle, you can't get fancy with language either.

In case of overlap and such, joining the two is an option, but when it comes to fast cuts and such it's hard to keep the convention of "normal font for speaker on screen, italics for speaker offscreen" and other stuff. And sometimes you want to keep stuff on screen for a bit longer than normal vs. not, and all that.

Then there's the idioms that's quite difficult to translate. I remember a very distinctive example... In an episode of Initial D (season 1, when Itsuki got his 85 and went to top of the mountain, and a couple guys started making fun of the car, making Takumi mad), one of the insults, in a certain subtitle, was rendered as

"Don't let 'little sheep' chase you!"

It wasn't until MUCH later that I realized that the proper translation was

"Don't let a scooter tailgate you!"

(Little sheep is a nickname for scooters in Japan)

I got other examples, but they involve foul language. Badly translated.

[ericf]

Main problem is that the overlapping subs are not mistakes made by the subber. You have two sets of dialog going at the same time and you need to either position them differently or mark them in a way taht makes the viewer see that the first sub is for 1 dialog and the second is for another.

What I have to do now is to manually edit subs in such a way that one sub comes at the top and the other at the bottom All the time so that it won't be confusing. If you have one sub that continues for a long time combined with 2 or three short subs for the second dialog you have a lot of re-timing and editing to do. I just wish that positioning of subtitles in SSA would be read into the subtitle creation programs so that I don't have to do everything once again.
ericf

[mikiem]

Positioning as you've described is usually (normally?) handled by the authoring prog -- no positioning data is stored in any of the other text sub formats I've come across. V/Dub might handle it, but that would give you permanent or hard subs. Authoring prog that can take ssa I think are expensive -- would any of the tools work to create graphic subs from ssa, and could you use graphical?

[kschang]

MaestroSBT takes SSA and generates graphic subs as a SON file and a bunch of TIF files (other file formats are possible too)

[manono]

The recently released version of MaestroSBT has made TIF output the default for some stupid reason. It's easy to change it so you get a SON file and BMP out the other end. And as stated, it takes SSA subs as direct input. Several authoring apps take SSA subs as input. I use DVDAuthorGUI.

I use SubStation Alpha to fix the overlaps of SSA subs. It shows them immediately and although you have to fix them manually, it's pretty easy to do in principle. Like everything else, it just takes time.