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Umm just can one say?
P2p equates with drug dealing. Now this.
Man the goons are out in force lately.
http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,69851,00.html
Anyone ever watch a documentary called Comic Book Confidential?Cops Dig Anti-Game Crusader
By John Lasker
Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,69851,00.html
02:00 AM Dec. 16, 2005 PT
No definitive link has ever been discovered showing violent video games cause violent behavior. Even so, thousands of law-enforcement officers on our streets are being told otherwise.
Meet Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, one of law enforcement's most in-demand speakers and trainers.
Grossman, an ex-Army Ranger and West Point psychology professor, has been on the road 300 days a year since 2001, speaking mostly to law-enforcement departments and academies. He's booked solid through late 2006.
One of Grossman's key messages is that "violent media and video games are the largest single threat to modern civilization."
Grossman claims to be one of the "world's foremost experts in the field of human aggression and the roots of violence and violent crime."
He is founder and director of the Killology Research Group, a police and military consultancy, and since the Columbine massacre, he's become one of the game industry's most fervent critics.
He's written several high-profile books, including On Killing, which is required reading at the FBI Academy and some of the nation's top military schools. He also wrote Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill: A Call to Action Against TV, Movie and Video Game Violence.
Grossman has testified before Congress and numerous state legislatures. He was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize for On Killing and was cited by President Clinton during a national address.
According to Grossman, first-person shooters are "murder simulators" that not only desensitize players from the psychological ramifications of killing, but also teach the mechanics of killing.
In October, Grossman spoke for four hours at the Utah Sheriffs' Association annual conference and "kept everyone glued to their seat," said a law-enforcement trade publication.
Two of those hours were spent discussing studies of the effects of violent video games on kids.
Grossman refused several times to comment for this story, citing his busy schedule.
But Grossman has likely left a deep impression on thousands of police officers and detectives.
"Are we cognizant that these games are out there and they have a big influence over our youth? Absolutely," said Chief David Hiller, national vice president for the Fraternal Order of Police, the world's largest police organization.
Hiller said the FOP hasn't taken an official position on the issue of video-game violence, but a lot of officers on the street are concerned that young people are emulating violent games.
"Remember, these kids are being rewarded for pulling the trigger and killing people," Hiller said. Hiller said some officers search for violent video games at crime scenes to present as evidence at trial.
Thomas J. Aveni, co-founder of The Police Policy Studies Council, a law-enforcement training and consulting company, said Grossman is misguided to draw a definitive link between media violence and real violence.
"He does perpetuate misconceptions among police," Aveni said.
Aveni said the real causes of violence are upbringing, poverty and other social factors, and that Grossman's argument is "too simplistic" and "illogical."
"The vast majority of violent felony crimes ... are being committed by inner-city youths who don't have an Xbox, meaning they haven't been conditioned by violent video games," he said.
Aveni said he and Grossman have debated violent video games in e-mail several times in the past. He has challenged Grossman to a public debate but Grossman declined.
"He should reconsider much of what he disseminates in the law-enforcement community during the last 10 years because at best, much of what he has disseminated is of dubious value, and at worst (it's) potentially harmful," Aveni said.
However, Grossman and the police aren't the only ones alarmed by recent studies showing what researchers call a "casual link" between violent games and real-world violence.
"There is a growing body of evidence that points to a link between violent videos and aggressive behavior in children," said Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-Connecticut) at a press conference for the annual release of the MediaWise Video Game Report Card.
Later that day, Lieberman and Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-New York) introduced The Family Entertainment Protection Act, which proposes to ban the sale of Mature-rated games to minors.
One longtime researcher of media violence says he's not surprised by growing concerns surrounding the $10 billion games industry.
"The research is getting larger and stronger that shows violence in games increases aggressive behavior in minors," said Iowa State University social psychologist Craig A. Anderson (.pdf).
Grossman has told audiences a way to remedy violent media is to challenge the producers and distributors in court -- a tactic advocated by Miami-based attorney Jack Thompson.
Thompson's relentless public-relations war against the video-game industry is becoming the stuff of legend. He once referred to the proliferation of certain Sony games in the United States as "Pearl Harbor 2."
Earlier this year, Thompson told Wired News he will someday challenge the video-game industry with a wrongful-death lawsuit, forcing it to reign in game developers, pay millions in punitive damages and crack down on retailers that don't enforce Entertainment Software Rating Board ratings.
"Look at the tobacco industry," he said. "We're pioneers at this. The first time you don't succeed...."
The EXACT same arguments were used against comic books way back when.
Someone once pointed out what did they blame violence on before television and video games? What flipped Jack the Ripper? Or thousands of other serial killers and mass murders.
This is just more of the same old crap and lies from the same old people.
Anyone watching the Three Stooges ever take a saw to someones head? Bugs Bunny fans drop an anvil on anyone?
The fact is when children are questioned about where they learn violence almost all claim it is at home from abusive parents.
I'm sick and tired of these wedge issue hypocrites and their garbage.
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 23 of 23
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This world's insane.
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There is a psychological need to have something to blame irrational behavior on, so that people can feel safe by avoiding these so-called causal factors. To understand that some people just go nuts for no apparent reason, and that these people cannot be identified beforehand, and therefore avoided, is deeply disturbing to many.
Particularly to that crowd which wants to take away the ability to defend oneself, instead relying on a police force which is, in their mind, on the lookut for these identifiable "disturbed" folks so they can be stopped Before they become dangerous.
At one time a new dance craze was identified and vilified as one of these causal factors which must be eliminated. We know this dance today as the Waltz. -
Sure.
Makes perfect sense.
After all, the Twister game got my sister pregnant.
.)Whatever doesn't kill me, merely ticks me off. (Never again a Sony consumer.) -
Apples and oranges. Neither are anywhere close to being as realistic as some of the latest video games. Besides, I can never seem to find an anvil when I really could use one.Originally Posted by GullyFoyle
While I don't believe the video games or movies cause the violent behavior I have no doubt that they are desensitizing all of us. I'm sure one of the derivitive results of that is more violent behavior.
This coming from someone who spend countless thousands of hours glued to a PC playing the original DOOM. In fact I probably still have the original two disk teaser distro that I downloaded from a local BBS.
(And yet I still haven't killed anyone.)
Simple fact. When the story Frankenstien was first read to a group of people one woman actually fainted. They were not accustomed to such graphic violence being presented as entertainment.
No doubt. I'm sure the same learned behavior applies to most young drug users.Originally Posted by GullyFoyle -
Maybe someone should tell this LT Col. US Army Ranger that his branch of service has published a violent video game called America's Army.
One of Grossman's key messages is that "violent media and video games are the largest single threat to modern civilization."
He earned a retirement playing the game didn't he? Training for and killing in real life is OK? I think this guy needs to remember who's paying him a retirement before he claims that games teach these kids about being rewarded for pulling the trigger and killing people.
Ever hear of Hazardous Duty Pay Colonel?
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It rarely gets mentioned but America's Army tracks players. If you have good skills you get a recruitment contact.Originally Posted by ROFMaybe someone should tell this LT Col. US Army Ranger that his branch of service has published a violent video game called America's Army.
One of Grossman's key messages is that "violent media and video games are the largest single threat to modern civilization."
He earned a retirement playing the game didn't he? Training for and killing in real life is OK? I think this guy needs to remember who's paying him a retirement before he claims that games teach these kids about being rewarded for pulling the trigger and killing people.
Ever hear of Hazardous Duty Pay Colonel?
Basically it is ok when they do it but bad when anyone else does.
This may the same guy who claimed that the Padukah Kentucky kid learned to kill from video games. He claimed that the kid specifically learned headshots. He claimed the kids headshot accuracy came from playing video games.
He never mentioned that firing a real gun accurately is far different from a gamepad or mouse experience.
This is just as much bullshit as when they blame guns for gun violence.
And as far as the desensitizing argument goes violent crime is pretty far down these days. The lowest ever if I recall. -
Plot Summary for
Mazes and Monsters (1982) (TV)
Bound together by a desire to play "Mazes and Monsters," Robbie (Tom Hanks) and his four college classmates decide to move the board game into the local legendary cavern. Robbie starts having visions for real, and the line between reality and fantasy fuse into a harrowing adventure.
Anyone remember that one?
It's been comic books (Comicbook Confidential), D&D (Mazes & Monsters), heavy metal (Judas Priest album trial) & now video games. -
ROF SAID:
Maybe someone should tell this LT Col. US Army Ranger that his branch of service has published a violent video game called America's Army.
One of Grossman's key messages is that "violent media and video games are the largest single threat to modern civilization."
He earned a retirement playing the game didn't he? Training for and killing in real life is OK? I think this guy needs to remember who's paying him a retirement before he claims that games teach these kids about being rewarded for pulling the trigger and killing people.
Ever hear of Hazardous Duty Pay Colonel?
That is the biggest load of lies I have EVER heard! How much time
have you spent in the military? The soilder is the LAST person to
want to go to war. THEY have to fight it! A soilder doesn't get rewarded
for killing. Hazardous duty pay is VERY small compenstion for
RISKING YOUR LIFE! It is not extra pay to engage in killing.
Combat is not a game!
Your love for the RIAA MPAA makes a lot of sense when
it is coupled with your total misunderstanding and disdain for
the military. -
I would argue that a culture that glorifies violence and promotes it as entertainment has to have an effect. You only have to look at a country like Iraq, where every household is permitted to own an AK47 (why?)- it's a sign of manhood!
There may not be a proven direct link, but you only have to watch kids playing to see that it feeds aggression."Just another sheep boy, duck call, swan
song, idiot son of donkey kong - Julian Cope" -
Dude do you remember what they claimed about Pacman and how kids were going to get addicted to it? SNL had a great skit about that.Originally Posted by Headbanger's Ball
Before comics they tried to blame dime novels and penny dreadfuls.
Relly why address deep rooted social problems like poverty and violence in the home when you can pin all the ills on a single culprit. -
Like when we played Cowboys and Indians way back when?Originally Posted by Safesurfer
If you want a link to violence listen to sports terminology, especially American football. Some of the most violent language I ever encountered outside the bible.
I have a problem with the Iraq statement. If your country was invaded by an occupying force for no apparent reason wouldn't you go all Red Dawn on them? There is more violence in the US, according to Rummy, than Iraq.
In the end it isn't the gun but the gunner. Just like sex.
I know lots of safe hunters that have never shot anyone and respect their weapon.
I also know of Japanese who go on Katana rampages. No guns involved.
I do need to add this
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/10/17/crime.rate/
Decade long!FBI: Violent crime rate declines again
From Terry Frieden
CNN
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. violent crime rate declined 2.2 percent last year, continuing a decade-long downward trend in serious offenses, the FBI said Monday.
All major categories of violent crime in the United States declined in 2004, bringing the rates of the most serious offenses, including murders, rapes, robberies and assaults, to a level 32 percent lower than those reported in 1995, the new figures show.
The rate of property crimes -- such as burglary, larceny and auto theft -- declined 2.1 percent as well last year.
This started just about the time FPS's came out.
No increase from video games in any way.
Almost the EXACT opposite of what is being claimed. -
It all started right here
http://www.comic-art.com/bios-1/wertham1.htm
Sounds just like the Reefer Madness story.But it was when Wertham published his book "Dark Legend" in 1941 that his studies began to take on a noticeable trend in connecting popular culture with crime. Dark Legend was the true story of a 17 year old New York City teenager who killed his mother in the late thirties. Detailing the boys life, Wertham noted the boy's interests in movies, radio and comic books, which Wertham believed helped the boy move emotionally into a fantasy world, contributing to the boy's aberrant behavior and finally the crime itself. The book was made into a play, and only Wertham's insistence that a film story follow closely the book did the deal fall through.
1948 brought two events from Dr. Wertham that began a snowballing disaster for comic books. The first was an article in Reader's Digest magazine that eschewed comics as a direct contributor to violence in American children. The second was another book about troubled New York children in case studies. This book, "the Show of Violence" firmly attacked comics, movies and other forms of media entertainment as detrimental to children and young teens, in the form and format of their contemporary design.
It would be unfair to indicate that Wertham was alone in his quest. In 1940 children's book author Sterling North attacked comics as vile sex serials and in 1949 Gershom Legman wrote "Parade of Pleasure" a highly sought after book by comic collectors. In this book Legman accused comic artists, writers and publishers as degenerates and believe it or not he stated that the two most popular comic publishers of the day were "..staffed entirely by homosexuals and operating out of our most phalliform skyscraper." Pretty strong stuff I say!
One of the results of these events was the convening of a Senate panel in New York State focusing on comic books and other media. But by this time the death knell was beginning to ring for comics. All over America comic books were feeling the pressure from religious and community groups. Major cities in some states banned comic books. Laws were introduced in 18 states restricting the sale of comics. Protesters were visible in front of stores and newsstands that sold comics. magazine distributors were deluged with complaints.
Then Wertham wrote yet another book, and this would ring the final bell for many comics companies, and almost comics themselves. Released in 1954, "Seduction of the Innocent" was Wertham's epic tome on the effects of comics on children. He gave graphic examples of sex and violence. He told of scores of stories with unredeemed criminals. Dope, sadism, rape.
This Gaines story is funny.
A little more insightDuring his questioning, Gaines found notoriety for this particular exchange:
Estes Kefauver: This seems to be a man with a bloody ax holding a woman's head up which has been severed from her body [Crime SuspenStories #22, rendered by Johnny Craig]. Do you think that is in good taste?
Gaines: Yes sir; I do, for the cover of a horror comic. A cover in bad taste, for example, might be defined as holding the head a little higher so that the neck could be seen dripping blood from it and moving the body over a little further so that the neck of the body could be seen to be bloody....
Chairman (Senator Robert C. Hendrickson): Here is another one I want to show him.
Kefauver: This is the July one [Crime SuspenStories #23, art by George Evans]. It seems to be a man with a woman in a boat and he is choking her to death here with a crowbar. Is that in good taste?
Gaines: I think so.
Hannoch: (despairingly) How could it be worse?
http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/2001/5/2001_5_20.shtml
The hearings did not go well for the comics and their defenders. William Gaines, whose E.G. Comics published many of the most violent books, was outraged by the attacks on his industry and eager to testify. But his mind was muddled by diet pills, and he stepped into an easy trap when he told the committee, “My only limits are the bounds of good taste, what I consider good taste.”
Senator Kefauver then held up an E.G. comic and asked, “This seems to be a man with a bloody ax holding a woman’s head up, which has been severed from her body. Do you think that is in good taste?”
Gaines dug himself in even deeper: “Yes, sir, I do—for the cover of a horror comic. A cover in bad taste, for example, might be defined as holding the head a little higher so that the blood could be seen dripping from it. ...”
KEFAUVER: “You’ve got blood coming out of her mouth.”
GAINES: “A little.”
Wertham, by contrast, was convincing and self-assured—and disingenuous. His testimony failed to mention the results of a questionnaire he had designed and sent out on behalf of the Kefauver committee, in which nearly 60 percent of responding psychiatrists had found no link between comic books and juvenile delinquency and almost 70 percent opposed banning any comics. He went on to represent as racist an E.G. Comics story that attacked racism. Why? Because it depicted violent, racist men committing violent deeds and using racist epithets. “I think Hitler was a beginner compared to the comic-book industry,” he claimed, abandoning all restraint.
“Once you start to censor, you must censor everything,” Gaines warned. If all depictions of bad things undermined our children’s psyches, what was not to be banned? The Bible? Most literary classics? All newspapers? -
ROF is referring to America's Army a first person shooter game funded by your tax dollars. Thetype of game the colonel is specifically targeting. It's pretty good too. They give it away: http://www.americasarmy.com/Originally Posted by pdemondo
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Video Restorer
- Jun 2003
- dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
I can think of several "cherished books" (you know the ones I mean!) that have more violence and despicable acts than any video game has ever had. Of course, if you say that out loud, they'll condemn you on Fox News.
Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
FAQs: Best Blank Discs • Best TBCs • Best VCRs for capture • Restore VHS -
I suspect the problem isn't even a problem.
The "Colonel" has found he can make tons of money on the talk circuit hyping this issue to the audience that agrees with him.
The FBI stats indicating violent crime trending downwards doesn't affect either him, or his audience.
What the real danger is - the likelihood some dumb shmuck of a legislator will buy into this argument and try to eliminate entertainment videos and games on the mere thought it will do society good.Whatever doesn't kill me, merely ticks me off. (Never again a Sony consumer.) -
LMMFAO!Originally Posted by painkiller
I don't believe video games 'cause' violence, but I do believe alot are forgetting to add or totally missing that the person(s) prolly had alot of pre-existing conditions that contributed to the violent acts.
Just another scapegoat to blame it on...
Sabrowww.sabronet.com - It's all you need...to know -
Terrible career choice then.Originally Posted by pdemondo
Buddha says that, while he may show you the way, only you can truly save yourself, proving once and for all that he's a lazy, fat bastard. -
If you meet the Buddha on the road you should kill him.Originally Posted by VCDHunter
Zen tenet -
Oh, like you guys haven't seen the hidden camera videos of Al-Qaeda playing Doom, Quake and the GTA games before 9/11.
Nothing can stop me now, 'cause I don't care anymore. -
22 years and counting.Originally Posted by pdemondo
WOW! You've never served or talked to any combat arms soldier have you? We bring our own soundtracks to war today unlike the wars of yesteryear when we didn't have devices small enough or powerpacks small enough to run them. Sure there are those who get the morning before deployment jitters but once in the zone . . . . well I'll self-censor those feelings.Originally Posted by pdemondo
you might also want to note why combat arms personnel are promoted quicker than those pushing papers in brigade offices.
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Moving this to OT, as it's not video related.
/Mats -
Sure, get rid of all the video games, but it's OK to buy a handgun or even an AK-47 at the local pawn or gun shop.
What kind of message does that send?
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