HP cracks down on cartridge refill industry

[canadateck]

Hewlett-Packard on Thursday accused a national cartridge reseller of refilling used printer cartridges with ink that relies on a formula for an HP-patented ink brand.

In its letter to Cartridge World, HP asked the company to stop using inks with the same chemical composition that's found in its patented brand of Vivera inks. HP holds 9,000 patents related to imaging and printing, 4,000 of them for consumable supplies such as ink and cartridges.

Although not an official legal action, the letter to Cartridge World is part of a broader attempt to crack down on the ink cartridge refill industry, HP said.

"HP spends millions of dollars annually in R&D to create innovations that benefit our customers, and we are rigorous in our protection of this investment," Pradeep Jotwani, senior vice president of supplies in HP's Imaging and Printing Group, said in a statement. "HP hopes that Cartridge World North America will assist its franchisees in quickly complying with the law."

Palo Alto, Calif.-based HP said it found multiple instances of cartridges filled with the infringing ink at Cartridge World's U.S. franchises. The cartridges replace a handful of HP printer cartridges, including those numbered 56, 57 and 78, and would be used in HP's DeskJet consumer printers.

Representatives with Cartridge World North America in Emeryville, Calif., and its home office in Adelaide, South Australia, were not immediately available to comment on the accusations.

Cartridge World, commonly found in strip malls and in business parks, refills empty inkjet cartridges from printer makers such as HP, Epson, Canon and Lexmark International and sells them at heavily discounted rates. For example, Cartridge World sells an HP 56-compatible cartridge for $17.72 instead of its usual retail price of $35.35. A discounted HP 78-compatible cartridge that retails for $53.07 sells for $26.57 under Cartridge World pricing.

Separately, HP said it settled its false-advertising lawsuit against Rhinotek Computer Products of Carson, Calif.

Rhinotek acquires used HP ink cartridges and refills them with generic ink prior to resale. HP's suit alleged that Rhinotek's packaging failed to tell consumers that the "compatible" products are used.

Rhinotek has denied any wrongdoing, but has agreed, among other things, to modify its packaging. Financial terms of the deal were not disclosed.

HP said it is using the Cartridge World and Rhinotek cases to draw attention to its intellectual-property rights.







Previous Next "HP has lost more than most of the other vendors in the aftermarket because they sell more than any other vendor," said John Shane, a director at InfoTrends/CAP Ventures and an industry expert on the ink and toner market.

The estimated retail value for cartridges used in HP inkjet machines in the United States in 2004 was about $6.3 billion, according to Shane. That's just more than half the $12 billion Shane estimates as the amount for all cartridges for all machines used for desktops last year.

And even though HP printer cartridges make up the majority, the company itself controls only 88 percent of the retail value. The remaining portion of that cartridge demand goes to refilling companies such as Cartridge World, InkCycle and Rhinotek.

"HP products tend to be a little more difficult to recreate in the generic market because the refilling companies can't make print heads, but a good portion of HP's cartridge business is getting eaten up," Shane said.

The case draws many similarities to one that HP settled in June with InkCycle.

HP initially filed the lawsuit in March 2005 after it discovered that refilled inkjet cartridges sold under the Staples brand contained patent-infringing ink. HP filed the lawsuit, but reached the settlement before going to court. InkCycle eventually changed its ink formula.


http://news.com.com/HP+cracks+down+on+cartridge+refill+industry/2100-1047_3-5905212.html?tag=cd.top

[RabidDog]

So two conclusions too draw ,
1) HP will royally gouge you on every cartridge,
2) generic inks ARE exactly the same as Mfr inks... so buy generic
3) dont buy Hp printers, as the consumables are too expensive.

I think a study showed that weight for weight printer ink is more expensive than '72 chateneauf de Pape., or '59 lafitte!

[GullyFoyle]

So two conclusions too draw ,
1) HP will royally gouge you on every cartridge,
2) generic inks ARE exactly the same as Mfr inks... so buy generic
3) dont buy Hp printers, as the consumables are too expensive.

I think a study showed that weight for weight printer ink is more expensive than '72 chateneauf de Pape., or '59 lafitte!

But you can't print out porn with wine. 8)
Although the two do go well together. 8)

[Noahtuck]

So two conclusions too draw ,
1) HP will royally gouge you on every cartridge,
2) generic inks ARE exactly the same as Mfr inks... so buy generic
3) dont buy Hp printers, as the consumables are too expensive.

I think a study showed that weight for weight printer ink is more expensive than '72 chateneauf de Pape., or '59 lafitte!

But you can't print out porn with wine. 8)
Although the two do go well together. 8)

But you CAN buy your porn mags for cheaper 8)
Or you could really save and just burn it to a slideshow vcd
And then you have more $$$ for more of both :P

And i came to the conclusion that HP is a ripoff and crap a long time ago anyways

[hech54]

I only buy HP printers.
I only buy new HP cartridges.
Refill kits and generic cartridges suck.
I don't print family photos, print on printable CD's or DVD's, nor do I print dozens of printable media/DVD case inserts at a time that may or may not have been designed to fool someone into thinking they are real or genuine factory created DVD's.

[Noahtuck]

nor do I print dozens of printable media/DVD case inserts at a time that may or may not have been designed to fool someone into thinking they are real or genuine factory created DVD's.

Maybe it's just me... but how did that come up or have anything to do with what anyone stated in this thread

I only buy HP printers.
I only buy new HP cartridges.

Then you must have $$$ to light cigars with

Refill kits and generic cartridges suck.

Yeah, when it come's to HP's grabage product's 8)

[hech54]

I only worded it that way because:

Some people simply like to get their jollies copying rented DVDs simply because they can and we all know that rented DVD do not come with cover art...

OR

Some people get their jollies selling fake DVDs on places like Ebay so they need tons of cheap ink to print out the dozens of bootleg printable DVDs and cover art in order to maximize their illegal profits....

would have been a bit too harsh and accusatory.

It is my personal opinion that people who complain about cover sites being down or stories like in the original post fall into one of the two scenarios I mentioned above. I've also been posting comments like this for a LONG time and much to my surprise...not one of the threads that I've posted in have been locked and nobody has been given a warning once the thread gets far enough to be of questionable content.
Amazing.

[canadateck]

Some people simply like to get their jollies copying rented DVDs simply because they can and we all know that rented DVD do not come with cover art...

OR

Some people get their jollies selling fake DVDs on places like Ebay so they need tons of cheap ink to print out the dozens of bootleg printable DVDs and cover art in order to maximize their illegal profits....


It is my personal opinion that people who complain about cover sites being down or stories like in the original post fall into one of the two scenarios I mentioned above.

So Because People like to save money and not buy HP's WAY over priced Ink, Means we are, Renting and selling Bootleg DVD's on Ebay? (If So) Give me a break.

Cover sites are also good for People who dont have a scanner or who Like to make custon Covers (Like Myself).


PS:I only use a Canon Printer,and the Cheapest INK I can Find,I only use Canon Yellow INK. :P

[RottenFoxBreath]

hp printers and ink are shit,you would have to be retarded especially here in the uk,with the stupidly high prices they sell them at.
heck some inks are dearer than the printers.
i use generic ridisc or inkjet inks,and have never had a problem,and use epson printers,as hp blow donkey balls,big time.

[canadateck]

heck some inks are dearer than the printers.
.

Your right about that, I saw a HP printer for sale with INK,that was Less$ then the INK off the shelf.

[ROF]

HP makes good printers but their consumables are outrageously priced. I only buy genuine HP consumables if I am in the middle of print job and need a cartridge immediately. Otherwise, I buy my ink online and always buy the generics. In my experience, refill kits cause more problems then they are worth.

[gadgetguy]

I've been very satisfied with all of my HP printers, one of which is close to 10 years old. I also have no complaints about my Epson R200, but I only use that for printing CDs/DVDs. I had a really bad experience with Canon several years ago and I will probably never buy from them again. I've always used manufacturers inks and they are all expensive, but to me it's worth it. Many of my family and friends use generic/refill inks and it has been my observation that they have to replace their printers far too often, and there is no consistancy of color in their documents.

[dphirschler]

I have only bought HP inks, but I agree they are WAY overpriced! My next printer will probably be an Epson. Their inks are much more affordable. HP and their overpriced ink can blow me.


Darryl

[Headbanger's Ball]

I bought an HP printer because it had the cheapest ink in the store. I'm satisfied with the printer and it's functions and the quality of prints. However, the ink prices are still high enough to prevent me from printing more than is absolutely required...2 or 3 pages; ok, 40-page doc file...going be using the laser printer at school for that.

[davideck]

I bought an HP printer because it had the cheapest ink in the store.

I've had HP printers; one kept clogging and eventually died. Never again...
Now I have two Canons. Cartridges are a couple of bucks on EBay and the print quality is great. I do not print photos, however.

[greymalkin]

many people have expressed their dissatisfaction with refill kits but i've had great luck with mine. I get the standard (overpriced) ink cartridge with the printer, then I bought a $20 kit that gave me about 3 refills on the black and 2 on the color...so for $20 I got about $100 worth of ink had I gone out and bought HP's cartridges. It came with one black ink bottle and the 3 colors and some syringes to refill the cartridge..as long as you don't let the cartridge go completely dry you can get a few good refills out of it..

[Paul_G]

Been using cheapo ink since the late 90s and never have looked back, i will never pay premium just for a NAME on a cardboard box. I pay £16 for 20 ink carts (12 black, 8 colour) while local shops (con merchants?) want over £100 for the so-called official stuff.

@hech54

I take it your comment was a joke? saying people only buy cheap ink for piracy reasons is not only stupid but makes you look like a right clown.

[VegasBud]

As to the original subject of this thread, I don't think a printer manufacturer has any more right to dictate what ink cartridges are used than a dvd burner manufacturer has to dictate what dvd blanks you use.

I have used nothing but Epson since my first dot matrix printer, and haven't had any problems at all. However, I have known several people who got HP printers and ended up returning them after comparing their output to mine, or having assorted problems. This "crack down" certainly doesn't change my opinion of HP.

Regarding the use of generic cartridges, I use them in my r200 for cd/dvd printing because they are pretty good at that, and are far cheaper. For printing photos with my Epson 1270, I use the Epson cartridges because the fine color gradations are much more true to life.

[gadgetguy]

As to the original subject of this thread, I don't think a printer manufacturer has any more right to dictate what ink cartridges are used than a dvd burner manufacturer has to dictate what dvd blanks you use.

They aren't dictating what ink cartridges are used. The complaints are 1: The way the refilled cartridges were advertised, not making it clear that they are refilled and not authentic HP. And 2: For using their patented formula without permission.

[adam]

All the ink manufacturers enforce patents they have on their inks. The generic ink manufacturers have patents too, and enforce them against others. I don't see what the problem is VegasBud. The consumer can use whichever product they want. Ink manufacturers just have to actually create their own product rather than steal another's.

[Sillyname]

Don't by HP stuff.

Got it!

Actually, I kinda don't like HP because I nearly got a job at CONVEX supercomputer but HP was in the middle of buying them, so I was turned down.

CONVEX was beautiful. It had a workout room and spa on premise, so if you were frustrated with your work you could just walk down a hall and relax. They also had a warehouse that they didn't use, so they built an indoor RC car racetrack that engineers would race their souped-up cars in and drink beer on friday nights. And they gave people hefty sabaticals when they reached a certain time with the company.

I HATE HP.

[hech54]

@hech54
I take it your comment was a joke? saying people only buy cheap ink for piracy reasons is not only stupid but makes you look like a right clown.

I never said ALL people...I said Some people....

Honk Honk

[Gregg]

HP? What the hell was that?

[Halm1]

I only buy HP printers.
I only buy new HP cartridges.
Refill kits and generic cartridges suck.
I don't print family photos, print on printable CD's or DVD's, nor do I print dozens of printable media/DVD case inserts at a time that may or may not have been designed to fool someone into thinking they are real or genuine factory created DVD's.

Hmmm....I have two HP Photoprinters, an Epson R300 and an Epson R200. I use the HP's mostly for printing photos and the Epson's for printing EVERYTHING from time to time. There are 6 family members in my house, each with his own computer and each has his own printing needs and desires. I'll occasionally print a disk that I've backed up and make a copy of the cover for the DVD case. If I didn't use generic in on the HP's and CIS systems on the Epson's, I'd be spending $100 a week on just printer cartridges.

Saying that people that use generic inks to save money are doing so because they are pirating disks or printing illegal items is just about the damned stupidest thing I've ever heard. There is nothing in this world that hasn't been used for illegal purposes at one time or another.

[CaptainVideo]

Cost per gallon of fluid.

Gasoline $3.00
Milk $2.99
Coca-Cola $2.84
Gatorade $5.20
Evian Water $5.60
Orange Juice $6.64
Crisco Oil $7.44
Perrier Water $8.16
Snapple $10.32
Scope $27.20
Lemon Oil $27.22
Olive Oil $51.04
Shampoo $40.44
Real Maple Syrup $57.08
Jack Daniels Bourbon $101.12
Visine Eye Drops $995.84
Nasacort Nasal Spray $2,615.28
Printer Ink $8,895.72

Calculation based on HP Ink jet cartridge number 58, which contains 17ml of black ink at the typical list price of $39.95.

Patents are one way of monopolizing a product...

[RottenFoxBreath]

brilliant...thats just too funny.!
all they have to do really is change the formula slightly,even a quarter of a mill per how many parts would do it,and probably not change the ink in the final print at all,well not noticible.

[hech54]

I only buy HP printers.
I only buy new HP cartridges.
Refill kits and generic cartridges suck.
I don't print family photos, print on printable CD's or DVD's, nor do I print dozens of printable media/DVD case inserts at a time that may or may not have been designed to fool someone into thinking they are real or genuine factory created DVD's.

Hmmm....I have two HP Photoprinters, an Epson R300 and an Epson R200. I use the HP's mostly for printing photos and the Epson's for printing EVERYTHING from time to time. There are 6 family members in my house, each with his own computer and each has his own printing needs and desires. I'll occasionally print a disk that I've backed up and make a copy of the cover for the DVD case. If I didn't use generic in on the HP's and CIS systems on the Epson's, I'd be spending $100 a week on just printer cartridges.

Saying that people that use generic inks to save money are doing so because they are pirating disks or printing illegal items is just about the damned stupidest thing I've ever heard. There is nothing in this world that hasn't been used for illegal purposes at one time or another.

Again...I didn't say ALL people are doing it.
And printing family photos on store bought paper with a store bought printer is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard.....but to each his own.

[thecoalman]

I've purchased the generic refilled cartridges once, the printer I have seems to have a lot of issues with clogged heads even with the manufacturers cartridges. The generic ones were much worse, I think I spent more ink cleaning the heads than printing. I've purchased only the manufacturers ones since...

And printing family photos on store bought paper with a store bought printer is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard.....but to each his own.

I think it depends on how many your printing and your level of competence. I've printed a few photos as 8x10's that have come out as good as any photo your going to get from the store. These have been framed within a few hours of printing though. If you plan on printing copies of each photo you have taken then yes it is probably the stupidest thing I've ever hear too....

I don't understand why people need a copy of each photo they have taken anyway, that's one advantage to digital cameras and printing them yourself. You can pick a few good ones and print them, the rest just leave on you HDD.

[whitejremiah]

okay, in reguards to printing your own pictures at home as opposed to taking them to the store to get them developed, honestly i know a few people that have dropped a few hundred dollars into NICE digital cameras and printers with photo paper, and it really DOES look just as nice as a store developed photo.......in reguards to that list of prices for various things, that just disguests me that HP ink costs 80 TIMES the cost per gallon than jack daniels..makes me wanna go and drink some jack daniels for just thinking about it........and well over 100 times the price of real maple syrup...thats just wrong........

[hech54]

Printing a few photos here and there....everyone does that now and then...but I've heard of people using this technique thinking it will archive the photos in some way.....now THAT is the fault of companies like HP....making people think that their printers, paper and ink are that good.....and their not.
I've got over 2gigs of family photos from 3 different digitals stored(archived) in many different ways....plus negatives etc etc from "The Old Days".
Given the prices of cartridges....it is cheaper to take your flash card somewhere and have them printed if and when you need them.