Looking for a Capture Card for DVD

[progrocktv]

Hi all,
I'm looking for a real quick way to capture videos for DVD (real time mpeg 2). I do video for a church and we want to basically capture the video feed of the 1 hour service, author the dics, add a menu and have the services available as quickly as possible after the service (about an hour if possible). Also we have a huge collection of archived services on VHS we want to convert as well. I'm looking for something that's good quality around $250, also we would like the ability to capture PAL as well as NTSC (we have a PANASONIC AGW-1 conversion deck to upconvert the services to PAL because we have a sister church in the UK and they are requesting PAL copies.)

We looked into stand alone recorders but our pastor wants to have the menu screen a custom made background for the church, and the stand alone recorders do not offer a custom menu background feature.

So far I've been very frustrated. I tried 2 capture devices which I ended up taking back, the Plextor ConvertX which was HORRIBLE because it made the video look of the service look like it was shot on film, and we had several church members complain about that. I also tried the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 which we had nothing but audio sync drift problems about 30 minutes into each service.

I was looking at the Canopus, but it looks like that requires rendering from the DV capture, which would take too long (we have 2 services and would like the first service DVD available at the end of the second service, and the second service DVDs ready about an hour after the service (we have a fellowship hall cafeteria that serves lunch so most people hang around.)

Any ideas?

[steveryan]

I recently transferred a DV camcorder tape that was filmed in a church into MPEG (using the camcorders analogue outputs) with a Hauppauge 250 and the results were excellent. I also use it for VHS captures but a lot depends on your VHS player and the quality of the tapes. BTW, your username suggests you're a prog rock fan, have you heard of Magrathea? My friend is the singer.

http://www.magrathea.org.uk

[Stormin Norman]

Nothing is that fast on your budget. Capturing, Editing, Authoring will take a good moderate of the day(s) to accomplish., depending on a many of factors.

[harley2ride]

I would recommend getting Adobe Premiere Elements. It has most of the power of Adobe Premiere, in a more user friendly package, and I'v'e never had SYNC issues using Premiere.

[gadgetguy]

That time frame is a pretty high order. One thing you might try is to connect your video camera to a DVD recorder and let the recorder do the work during the service. I don't have a recorder, so if this isn't possible, anyone, tell me to shut up, but it seems that this would be the fastest way to get a DVD.
Edit: just re-read your post. I know you've dismissed the recorder already, but that would be the fastest way to get it to DVD format. The files could then be pulled into authoring software to set menus and chapters. With pre-made templates this could possibly be done in the timeframe you're looking for. But anythng that will require encoding will take too long.

[progrocktv]

That time frame is a pretty high order. One thing you might try is to connect your video camera to a DVD recorder and let the recorder do the work during the service.

Thanks for the info. We did give some thought to that but unfortunately you can't use custom background images on the menus with stand alones, and that was one thing our pastor wanted us to do. I know there are at least 2 churches doing the same exact thing we want to do and the end result looks fantastic, but none of them are willing to tell us how (There's always seems to be a stupid sense of competition among some churches believe it or not)

I'm thinking of giving the hauppaugue 250 a try.

[gadgetguy]

I guess I wasn't clear in my edit. Take the disc out of the recorder and put it into a computer and use authoring software to create the custom menus. With the files already in DVD format, it shouldn't take very long.

[anitract]

For your purposes, I think a Hauppauge 250 would be more than enough. TMPGEnc DVD Author would give you a way to make simple menus...I think you can use custom backgrounds there, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[davideck]

I agree that the Hauppauge 250 would be a good choice.
But how many DVD copies are you going to want after one hour?
Sounds like the duplication process may be the bigger issue...

[anitract]

That's a good point, davideck. progrocktv may want to consult with the church again...as I see it, with the current budget, the church won't have a very versatile system to distribute DVDs. Although, if its just making a couple DVDs per service - that's very do-able w/out spending too much time.

[progrocktv]

But how many DVD copies are you going to want after one hour?

Good question. We have two Sony 16x 9 bay duplicators so basically we can do about 18 copies in about 10-15 minutes (we burn 2 master discs and go from there) They work like a charm but unfortunatley we've only been able to make a ton of out of sync or "film looking" copies thanks to the previous capture cards we used (see previous post)

Also thanks for the good info so far everyone, please keep it up

Oh, also to STEVERYAN, yes, you are right on what the name implies and yes, I have heard Magrathea, they kind of sound like Gentle Giant and Yes don't they?

[gf]

Like that Genesis picture, looks like the cover of the first genesis live album.

Steve

[FulciLives]

The ADS Instant DVD 2.0 is a super great real-time MPEG encoder.

If you got audio sync errors then one of two things were happening.

1.) It was getting overheated. It does that. A very simple solution that DOES work is to put it on make-shift "legs" so that the bottom is up off of the surfact it is on and then blow a small fan on it. That works for me.

2.) Depending on the quality of the source video (especially those old VHS tapes) you might need a stand alone Full Frame TBC device. Unfortunately the cheapest such device is about $190 USD but you can purchase the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 on-line for about $100 USD so for $290 USD that is a great solution.

I know some here have mentioned the Hauppague WinTV-PVR units. It would be best to try the 250 model. The 350 has stuff you do not need and the 150 is flawed in various ways.

However I have some experience with both the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 and a Hauppague WinTV-PVR unit and the Hauppague is by far worse for VHS to MPEG-2 DVD than the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 was meaning you would almost definately need a Full Frame TBC for the Hauppage capture cards.

You might still want to consider the stand alone DVD recorder. You can record (real time) to a DVD-RW or DVD+RW (depending on the recorder you choose) then RIP the DVD to the computer (will be faster than real time ... probably 20 minutes if not less) then "dump" it into your DVD authoring software without the need to re-encode. TMPGEnc DVD Author is great for this task. Very easy to import a ripped DVD and even do some very basic editing (like trim the start and end points) and it is really super easy to add chapter points if you want that kind of control (it also has many options for inserting chapters automatically).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Keep in mind that all hardware MPEG capture/encoding cards (internal or external) do MP2 audio. This is true of the ADS and Hauppauge capture cards/devices. For optimal compatability be sure to convert the audio to AC-3 format when you make the DVD. Some authoring programs can do that for you. TMGPEnc DVD Author can with an optional and fairly in-expensive AC-3 plug-in. Also some versions of Ulead's MovieFactory (up to version 4.x now I think) will also do this although TMGPEnc DVD Author is a bit easier to work with if you ask me.

If you use a stand alone DVD recorder and just re-author on the computer than you are safe as DVD recorders use AC-3 or in the 1 hour mode some also use PCM WAV audio which is also safe. Just remember that MP2 audio is NOT safe i.e., as compatable as AC-3/PCM.

[progrocktv]

Depending on the quality of the source video (especially those old VHS tapes) you might need a stand alone Full Frame TBC device.

Thanks for the info, Yes we have a Datavideo 100 TBC which works great for copying VHS.

We did another dry run with the ADS Instant DVD and it worked great on the live capture. However running a tape through it caused sync issues again. I also had the unit elevated because of the heat and the problem still occured.

Cheers!

[FulciLives]

Depending on the quality of the source video (especially those old VHS tapes) you might need a stand alone Full Frame TBC device.

Thanks for the info, Yes we have a Datavideo 100 TBC which works great for copying VHS.

We did another dry run with the ADS Instant DVD and it worked great on the live capture. However running a tape through it caused sync issues again. I also had the unit elevated because of the heat and the problem still occured.

Cheers!

Well I have to admit that I only had the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 for about 2 weeks and then I returned it so in that amount of time I only tested it with 2 VHS videos but both worked fine as far as A/V sync and this was without the use of a TBC.

I really wanted it mostly for cable TV capture but the scheduling option was much too limited.

Then I tried the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 150 which was great as far as scheduling goes but was horrible with VHS capture ... not to mention other "issues" that the 250/350 models are free of (although I've heard they are just as picky about VHS captures). I also felt the quality of the image on the 150 was not as nice as the ADS image quality.

I ended up with a Pioneer stand alone DVD recorder with a built-in HDD so that now I have scheduling options plus recordings that work (no A/V sync issues) and look great. Plus I can get things done very quickly with it which is key since I'm recording a bunch of TV programs with it.

I really do think that for speed you are best with the DVD recorder. Since you have a TBC you should have no issues with quality of the recordings and you get AC-3 audio. The only "time consuming" part is ripping the DVD-RW/DVD+RW to the computer for re-authoring but if you use the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 250 you get MP2 audio which would have to be converted to PCM or AC-3 and that takes time as well so ... might end up same difference in time either way.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Fos]

if you want a good card , a pro card , get a matrox rt1000 , canopus amber , pinnacle edition........ a card that can capture mpeg2 in realtime. Pass of consumer cards : hauppage prv , that ads , etc.... (all conexant chips , you know , conexant !)

I have a pinnacle dc1000 and i am very happy with it. The mpeg2 quality is the best that i have seen....


just an opinion from a person that have had about 5-6 capture cards.

[Barnabas]

I have both a Hauppauge PVR-250 and a Canopus 55. The Haupauge would be the best choice for your video feeds, but the Canopus would be what you need you VHS conversions, plus a TBC.

[gadgetguy]

TMGPEnc DVD Author can with an optional and fairly in-expensive AC-3 plug-in.

In general I agree, but the plug-in requires activation, so if your church's video recording setup does not include internet access this could be a problem.

[snafu099]

I also tried the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 which we had nothing but audio sync drift problems about 30 minutes into each service.

Just to claify for other readers. your post on the ADS help forum indicated capture settings that disabled the " audio lock" feature of the hardware/software

Whatever problems there are with ADS as a company (support) or the IDVD-2 as a capture device (lack of scheduleing multiple captures), audio sync and capture quality are NOT an issue unless they have been caused by the user or post capture processing.

I am not saying the IDVD-2 is the best choice or the best quality, only that it WILL do what you want with very high quality if properly used

I have had and use the IDVD-2 since it was first introduced. I have done hundreds of vhs to dvd including tapes from early 80's in lp mode

[FulciLives]

I also tried the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 which we had nothing but audio sync drift problems about 30 minutes into each service.

Just to claify for other readers. your post on the ADS help forum indicated capture settings that disabled the " audio lock" feature of the hardware/software

Whatever problems there are with ADS as a company (support) or the IDVD-2 as a capture device (lack of scheduleing multiple captures), audio sync and capture quality are NOT an issue unless they have been caused by the user or post capture processing.

I am not saying the IDVD-2 is the best choice or the best quality, only that it WILL do what you want with very high quality if properly used

I have had and use the IDVD-2 since it was first introduced. I have done hundreds of vhs to dvd including tapes from early 80's in lp mode

Funny you should mention that. I was going to mention that maybe the user progrocktv was recording in a way that "disables" the locked audio support.

When I had the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 I did many many recordings. Only 2 from VHS but many from my cable TV feed (going through a digital cable box) and the quality was excellent and I never had sync problems. I always captured to a single muxed MPEG file with 384kbps MP2 audio. I would edit with MPEG-VCR then use MPEG-VCR to demux ... open the MP2 in SoundForge ... normalize and save as PCM ... then convert to AC-3 and author with TMPGEnc DVD Author and none of that ever caused video sync errors.

Again the only reason I ended up returning it was due to lack of TV scheduling options. It had nothing to do with quality which was most excellent.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[progrocktv]

**THE RESULTS ARE IN!! **

Okay my Hauppauge Win TV 250 came in today (thanks to the suggestion of you guys on this board) and we did a test run at the church tonight. There was a workshop going on tonight and the speaker didn't mind if we shot her and did a test run (she asked if she could get a copy) we did the run and captured at Standard DVD mode (lecture was about an hour). Lecture finished (there was a lengthy question and answer session which lasted an hour afterwards so that was PERFECT. Captured the Mpeg and auuthored the disc. The only Hiccup was Ulead Video Studio crashed a couple of times when authoring the disc (a Could Not Open File error???). So we stopped the stop watch, and rebuilt a quick project in NeroVision. Started it up the watch again and burned the disc in about 40 minutes. Popped it out into the replicator and ran a run of 9 discs in about 15 minutes (we burned a second disc from the computer and just estimated the time if we burned it into our second replicator which would have brought it up to 18 copies. Total time to build a DVD with menus post capture and run 18 copies: 61 minutes! Only ONE minite over our budgeted time. Delivered 9 copies of the lecture to the woman during refreshments afterwards (who was thrilled beyond belief) I'm sure she's gonna start selling them on her website or something.

So how did it look? Well the card itself seemed to run like a charm, and it didn't seem to run much CPU at all. One thing that annoyed me a but was the automatic naming of the MPEG files in WIN TV2000, but it wasn't a big deal. Yea, the software could use some improvement but just capturing MPEG it worked just fine. I wish there were a couple more presets (like an HQ DVD setting where you can get an hour in the disc) but it's nice they let you save custom settings (anyone know what would be a good setting for that?) Audio sync was great! (FINALLY!) one of our cameras lost signal in the cable during the shoot which caused a but of a spike in the signal before I could switch to another camera, but the 250 handeled it fine (we were going though a Datavideo 100 TBC as well so I'm sure that helped)

Overall picture quality was realy good, just a BIT of color was flat (but I'll have to tweak around with some of the saturation settings, but basically I was really pleased with it. I'll have to do some fine tuning but for a first shot it wasn't bad. It will be interesting to try the PAL stuff.

Ran a copy over to the pastor who was really pleased! (he said he thinks he can live with the extra minute of time it took

Next up is test capturing some of our archival stuff (going back to the early 80's so this should be interesting)

Alright it's 1am and I'm going to bed!
G'night and thanks for your help!!!!

[davideck]

I wish there were a couple more presets (like an HQ DVD setting where you can get an hour in the disc) but it's nice they let you save custom settings (anyone know what would be a good setting for that?)

To assure good dvd player compatibility, 8000 avg / 9100 max is about as high as you should go. This setting is also good for putting one hour on the disc, as it avoids all the media hassles beyond 4GB. A full disc is about 70 minutes.

[progrocktv]

Excellent, thanks.

Tried the PAL settings last night, once I got past fixing the Black and White issue I did a test and this card REALLY rocks with PAL! Colours looked beautiful and picture was stable (at DVD Standard Mode)

More later.

[progrocktv]

The final result.

Okay, just in case anyone is still listening (hello? anyone?) We did a final run Sunday. We shot the 9:00 service and captured directly into the PC using the Hauppauge 250 card which ran flawlessly! Were able to burn a master disc with custom menu and background music and spat out 19 copies by the end of the 10:30 service! did the same thing for 10:30 and was done with 19 copies of the 10:30 by 11:40! We did it and they look great!

Again thanks for your help on this form!

Now there's one more problem, we sold out of all of them within 5 minutes.

But that's another story

[presto]

What would you do if there was a computer glitch and you lost the video before you could do anything with it? Maybe you should have things set up so that you get a VHS tape copy at the same time which you can use in case of emergency.

[progrocktv]

Actually we do. We have a mini DV deck running at the same time. I'm just taking one of the feeds off the board.