Dropped Frames UGH!!!

[123fish123]

Well I am in the process of capturing my first bit of video from my Panasonic PV-GS120 camcorder.

I have tried capturing via windows movie maker and via Nero and I am having problems with both I hope someone can explain.

When I watch the video on the camcorder it is fine and not the least bit choppy.

When I try to capture via firewire using the above mentioned software it becomes very choppy (if I capture in .avi or .mpeg2 or no matter how I capture it).

I noticed on NERO it was counting captured frames and dropped frames and the dropped frame number was pretty high (about 5-10% of the captured frames) Does this mean it is losing something when trying to capture?

If so, what causes this and is there any remedy? My PC has 512 RAM and I am running XP so I don't think it's a memory issue.

Very confused

[steveryan]

Don't use Nero to capture, try WinDV.

[123fish123]

But it happens with NERO and Windows Movie Maker

[123fish123]

But it happens with NERO and Windows Movie Maker

And I just tried WIN DV...SAME THING. What is causing this madness!!!

[compuser]

Try looking at LordSmurf's site: http://www.digitalfaq.com/dvdguides/capture/droppedframes.htm

There are some tips on capturing... I don't know if they are applicable to DV capture...Still good tips...

Are you doing other things while the computer is transfering?

[Richard_G]

If you are dropping frames while transferring DV as .avi via Firewire, you have a seriously sick computer. The data transfer rate is only 3.8 MB per second and any modern computer and hard drive should easily be capable of well over 10 times this speed. First of all make sure you have DMA enabled on your drive(s). Filling your profile in would help greatly too.

[123fish123]

If you are dropping frames while transferring DV as .avi via Firewire, you have a seriously sick computer. The data transfer rate is only 3.8 MB per second and any modern computer and hard drive should easily be capable of well over 10 times this speed. First of all make sure you have DMA enabled on your drive(s). Filling your profile in would help greatly too.

Thanks! This looks promising. Can you elaborate a little for a Newbie...

DMA???

I have a P4 1.6 1.0 gigs of ram running XP and not much else in the backgroud.

[Richard_G]

Go to Device Manager, Click the + next to IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers, Right click Primary IDE Channel, select Properties, Advanced tab. Transfer Mode should be DMA if available and the current mode should be DMA mode 5 or 6. Repeat for the Secondary IDE Channel.

Hard drives are usually DMA mode 4, 5 or 6 depending on age, CD and DVD drives are usually mode 2.

[edDV]

If you are dropping frames while transferring DV as .avi via Firewire, you have a seriously sick computer. The data transfer rate is only 3.8 MB per second and any modern computer and hard drive should easily be capable of well over 10 times this speed. First of all make sure you have DMA enabled on your drive(s). Filling your profile in would help greatly too.

Thanks! This looks promising. Can you elaborate a little for a Newbie...

DMA???

I have a P4 1.6 1.0 gigs of ram running XP and not much else in the backgroud.

1. Avoid capture to the same drive as the OS. Best to use a separate drive on a separate controller but not necessary.

1a. If you must capture-transfer to the OS drive, create a seaprate partition (larger than the 14GB needed to transfer). Degragment the capture partition and the OS partition.

1b. If the application allows specifying a tmp. file. Place it on the capture drive or capture partition. Do not put it on the OS drive.

2. Turn off background tasks including anti-virus. Mine works with anti-virus turned on but your mileage may vary. Disconnect network and internet if necessary.

3. Check dma on disk drive properties in device manager.

FYI I can cap DV fine to a PIII 500 MHz machine with 256MB RAM (2 drives) so you need to diagnose your machine.

[junkmalle]

DMA settings:

If you have "My Computer" on the desktop right click on it. If not, press Start and right click on My Computer there, then select Manage. From the Computer Management dialog select Device Manager. Open the IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers section on the right half of the dialog. Then double click on Primary IDE Channel (do the same for Secondary IDE Channel later). From the Primary IDE Channel Properties dialog select the Advanced Settings tab. Make sure the "Transfer Mode" for each divice that is being used is set to "DMA if Available", not "PIO Only". If DMA isn't enabled, use the pulldown to set it. If DMA mode is set, look at "Current Transfer Mode". It should show a DMA mode like "Ultra DMA mode 5" or something similar. If you see a PIO mode listed you can uninstall the driver (see below) and restart your computer. Windows will automatically reinstall the driver and this usually puts the IDE controller back in DMA mode.

To uninstall the driver go back a step to Device Manager. Right click on Primary IDE Channel (or Secondary IDE Channel) and select Uninstall.

[123fish123]

DMA settings:

If you have "My Computer" on the desktop right click on it. If not, press Start and right click on My Computer there, then select Manage. From the Computer Management dialog select Device Manager. Open the IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers section on the right half of the dialog. Then double click on Primary IDE Channel (do the same for Secondary IDE Channel later). From the Primary IDE Channel Properties dialog select the Advanced Settings tab. Make sure the "Transfer Mode" for each divice that is being used is set to "DMA if Available", not "PIO Only". If DMA isn't enabled, use the pulldown to set it. If DMA mode is set, look at "Current Transfer Mode". It should show a DMA mode like "Ultra DMA mode 5" or something similar. If you see a PIO mode listed you can uninstall the driver (see below) and restart your computer. Windows will automatically reinstall the driver and this usually puts the IDE controller back in DMA mode.

To uninstall the driver go back a step to Device Manager. Right click on Primary IDE Channel (or Secondary IDE Channel) and select Uninstall.

My primary's are 5 and my secondarys are 4 and 3.

I am capturing to a separate drive from the OS.

The only thing I can think of is the Anti-Virus software. I'll try to close it (not even sure how) but if that doesn't work I don't know what else to try as again, the PC is fairly simple and has plenty of horsepower with the 1.6 processsor and 1.0 gigs of ram.

[junkmalle]

My primary's are 5 and my secondarys are 4 and 3.

I am capturing to a separate drive from the OS.

The only thing I can think of is the Anti-Virus software. I'll try to close it (not even sure how) but if that doesn't work I don't know what else to try as again, the PC is fairly simple and has plenty of horsepower with the 1.6 processsor and 1.0 gigs of ram.

Yes, Antivirus software is notorious for interfering with video capture. You can usually right click on the AV program's icon in the System Tray and select Exit.

[123fish123]

My primary's are 5 and my secondarys are 4 and 3.

I am capturing to a separate drive from the OS.

The only thing I can think of is the Anti-Virus software. I'll try to close it (not even sure how) but if that doesn't work I don't know what else to try as again, the PC is fairly simple and has plenty of horsepower with the 1.6 processsor and 1.0 gigs of ram.

Yes, Antivirus software is notorious for interfering with video capture. You can usually right click on the AV program's icon in the System Tray and select Exit.

You'd think it would be that stinking easy. It lets me turn off traffic but the .exe program is running in the background and actually in task manager looks like it is hogging up quite a chunk of memory. When I go to end the task it says "access denied" I am searching the Norton Internet Security site to see how to end the .exe but to no avail. Can you believe I can't even turn something off on my own PC.

UGH!!!!

[junkmalle]

Some people set up a bare second user account just for video capture.

[Richard_G]

As you are running XP, you may have to log in as Admistrator, or give yourself Adminstrator privileges.

[123fish123]

I just want to thank everyone for the input.

This is great stuff! Without your help I probably would have thought I needed a brand new PC.

GREAT STUFF!!!

[Nelson37]

There is a very extensive sticky on dropping frames which covers all the ground mentioned so far and then some. That is why it is a sticky, to avoid constantly re-inventing the wheel.

Capture to secondary drive, stopping all backround processes, setting DMA mode, this information has been present in the sticky for a year or more.

There are also detailed suggestions for solving other problems.

Filling out your computer profile would be helpful, also information about your installed DV codecs. And your firewire card. And details about how your hard drives are set up.

It sounds like you have two, non-identical drives on the same channel, with one of them slower than the other. Suggest you also test removing one drive, preferably the slower one, and test with one drive, all alone on the secondary channel, for your capture location.

This information is also present in the sticky.

And you have to go into Norton Setup or Console and stop the processes from running at bootup, including liveupdate, and then reboot.

[123fish123]

There is a very extensive sticky on dropping frames which covers all the ground mentioned so far and then some. That is why it is a sticky, to avoid constantly re-inventing the wheel.

Capture to secondary drive, stopping all backround processes, setting DMA mode, this information has been present in the sticky for a year or more.

There are also detailed suggestions for solving other problems.

Filling out your computer profile would be helpful, also information about your installed DV codecs. And your firewire card. And details about how your hard drives are set up.

It sounds like you have two, non-identical drives on the same channel, with one of them slower than the other. Suggest you also test removing one drive, preferably the slower one, and test with one drive, all alone on the secondary channel, for your capture location.

This information is also present in the sticky.

And you have to go into Norton Setup or Console and stop the processes from running at bootup, including liveupdate, and then reboot.

Thanks! I'm always one to be self sufficient but could you point me to the specific sticky you mentioned? Is it in a specific sub-category???

[junkmalle]

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157660

[Richard_G]

I'm not sure we can make this much simpler. You are talking about 'capturing' (even though you aren't at all, you are transferring digital data from a tape to a hard drive), a process that can cause you to enter into the dropping frames scenario.

So under what heading in the forums would you expect to find a sticky on dropping frames then? It certainly isn't going to be in the DVD authoring forum is it?

As it usually only affects people that are doing analogue captures (as I said originally, you need a seriously sick computer to drop frames while transferring DV over Firewire), the Capturing forum might be a good place to start. What would you expect a sticky dealing with dropping frames to be called? Do you think a sticky entitled, "Why does your system drop frames?", might possibly be the one you need to look at?

Fill in your computer details, tell us where in the world you are and try and do a tiny little bit of research first. Saying, "But I'm a noob" isn't a good excuse.

I, along with most of the other more experienced on here, have no problem helping people and giving them advice, and in many cases, the benefits of our past mistakes too, but try and help yourself just a little.

[123fish123]

Thanks to all of you that helped.

To those of you that felt the need to post long winded comments simply to tell me to do more research

:P

[edDV]

As it usually only affects people that are doing analogue captures (as I said originally, you need a seriously sick computer to drop frames while transferring DV over Firewire), the Capturing forum might be a good place to start. What would you expect a sticky dealing with dropping frames to be called? Do you think a sticky entitled, "Why does your system drop frames?", might possibly be the one you need to look at?

Separate from analog capture, there seems to be a recurring DV transfer frame drop problem. There needs to be a "dropped frames" sticky under DV.

[Richard_G]

Thanks to all of you that helped.

To those of you that felt the need to post long winded comments simply to tell me to do more research

:P

I'll happily help people that are obviously less experienced than I am, but it reaches the point when the spoon feeding has to stop.

Before you start making comments, have a look at who it was that was offering you advice in the early hours of this morning when I could have simply switched the computer off and gone to bed. Although it may not have been the early hours of the morning where you are.

I suppose that confirms my suspicion that you are in the US, sarcasm is lost on most Americans.......

[123fish123]

Ahhh... a generalization about an entire country.

Obviously your experience with a diversity of individuals is limited.

I fart in your general direction

[junkmalle]

123fish123, your 1.6 GHz P4 is on the slow side for any conversion while capturing. You said you had problems with both AVI and MPEG captures -- make sure your AVI captures are DV AVI, not a realtime convesion to some other codec while capturing. Since you also tried capturing with WinDV (which as far as I know can only capture as DV AVI) that probably isn't the issue, but I wanted to make sure you were aware of it.

Oh, one other possible problem: a spyware/virus/worm infection. Probably not a virus/worm since you're running NAV.

[lordsmurf]

There needs to be a "dropped frames" sticky under DV.

There is one.
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1297128#1297128
Look at the second topic in the sticky on "DV FAQ - Read me first"
This is in the DV forum.

This was also posted in this thread:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/dvdguides/capture/droppedframes.htm

Any of these things, should anybody actually take the time to read them, would have answered the question.

[edDV]

ahh, so it is
never mind