Create an DVD on PC that is editable on set top DVD+RW?

[ChainsawDude]

Is there any fundamental reason why a DVD+RW disc can not be authored on a PC with say TDA and then be edited on my Philips DVD+RW set top recorder?
All my attempts thus far, result in a disc that plays fine but the set top refuses to allow any edits, until I have done an initialise which wipes the contents.

Thanks in advance.

[daamon]

Hi ChainsawDude,

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "edit on your DVD recorder"? What, exactly, are you trying to achieve?

[ChainsawDude]

Hi daamon,

By edit I mean add and delete titles + add chapters to and divide existing titles.

I suspect DVD's created on a set top are a subtely different format, maybe DVD+VR but that's just my theory at the moment.

[guns1inger]

editable dvds are dvd-vr, and dvd recorders by necessity have a pretty simple range of editing functions, which would limit what could be achieved without butchering you tda work. Finally, I don't believe DVD recorders can edit a finalised disk, which is what you produce on the PC.

[spectroelectro]

Yes, there is a fundamental reason why DVDs you author on your cmputer cannot be edited with DVD recorders.

It's because DVD recorders use VOR format or VR format instead of VOB format to record video files. (To be technical, most good DVD burning programs burn in UDF format 1.02, rather than in UDF format 1.5 or 2.0 or 2.01. More on that below.) DVD recorders use VR format or VOR format because they must write multiple sessions to a single recordable disc, only finalizing the disc at the end. If you've ever tried aborting a DVD burn on your computer you will have noticed that you can't write any more information to the resulting DVD. However, if you press STOP on your DVD recorder, you typically *can* write further video information to the DVD, provided there's enough space on the DVD-R disc.

Why can you do that on a DVD recorder and not on a DVD you're burning on your computer?

You can do it because the VOR format and VR format are variants of packet writing similar in concept (though differnt in file structure) to the packet-written multiple-session CD-Rs we're all familiar with. Esentially packet writing creates a chain of linked files at the end of each session which the DVD recorder then uses to write the final file table with when you finalize the DVD. This means you've got a different file structure on a disc created by a DVD recorder than on a video DVD burned with something like VSO or Nero using ROM bootype and 1.02 UDF or RecordNow using the defaults. In particular, the DVD recorder inserts NAV information in the multiplexed video stream; this is information that lets you skip to various points and do other things depending on the feature set of the DVD recorder.

To make matters even more complex, there are tyipcally two types of video formats DVD recorders produce. On my JVC DRM10, for instance, you can format a DVD-R/W disc for either VR or VIDEO. The VR format is editable, while the VIDEO format isn't. The VR format cannot typically be edited by anything but the brand of DVD recorder tha produced it, so if you make the mistake of producing a VR-formatted disc with a bunch of recorded video on it you on, say, a Sony DVD recoder you typically can't edit it on a JVC DVD recorder.

The differences in file structure between VOR and VOB format are not large, and programs like Womble understand the difference and strip out all the non-video and non-audio information converting the ripped file to MPEG format. In Womble, choose CONVERT FILE and then choose VOB as source and MPG as destination.

VOB / VOR files differ from MPG files mainly in the relatively large amoutn of header information at the start of the file. By using Womble you can convert a VOR or VOB file into direclty editable multiplexed MPG.

There do exist programs that will let you directly read VR formatted files on a VR-formatted DVD, or the VOR files produced by a DVD recorder:
http://secure.mainstreetstores.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry16?SP=10024&PN=29&xid=55766&V1=3...P=0&CACHE_ID=0

The program ReadDVD! is one such. However I don't know of any program for the Windows platform that will let you write such VR-format DVDs or let you write VOR files to a DVD such that it could be edited directly on a DVD recorder.

This could get even more complex, with an explanation delving into the UDF (Unviersal Disc Format) which forms the basis of the file structure on all DVDs, whether data DVDs or video DVDs. There are currently various versions of UDF used in the market. V1.0.2 - Basic file system as used by DVD video players (ie rental movies) V1.5 - Support for CD-R and CD-RW drives and media V2.0 - Support for NT streaming. V2.0.1 - Support for Video Recording Files (ability to copy, read and delete VOR files). If you've fiddled around with Nero, you know that you get best results by choosing ROM booktype and 1.02, which ensures that you can play back your DVD on the widest possible range of DVD players. If you choose 1.5 or 2.0 in DVD with ROM booktype, your DVDs will typically not play back on some DVD players, especially older players...and this explains why.

The bottom line is simple: if you want DVDs you can edit on your DVD recorder, burn 'em on your DVD recorder, not on your computer.