** Jerky Picture Problem

[Waverley73]

Hi all. Please help me guys - I have made a home movie on my PC from footage made from my Panasonic NV-DS60 MiniDV video camera for my sons first birthday. Below are some details of what's going on:

Here are my PC specs:

- Pentium4 2.6GHz
- 512mb RAM
- Using Windows XP 2002 operating system

Here is a list of what I've been doing:

-Capturing the video as High Quality Video (PAL) with the following options
- File Type - WMV
- Bit Rate - variable bit rate
- Display Size - 720 x 576 pixels
- Frames per second - 25
-Editing the footage & adding audio/music and photos on Windows Movie Maker
-I then save the file as a DV-AVI file
-I convert this using WinAvi to DVD with the following options
- Constant Video Quality
- Quality: Highest
- Preference: By Quality
- PAL, 4:3
- Audio Bitrate - 192000
- DirectAC3 enabled
-I use Nero to burn the DVD

Here is my problem:

Most of my movie (only 13 minutes long) turns out really well (both audio and picture) but there are 3 scenes that despite me tryng to re-capture it seems to have a low frame-rate or something. The picture doesn't jump as such but when there is movement it seems really jerky. This is only happening on about 90 seconds of this and I've really got no idea why this is happening. I checked the details of the newly captured video and here are the details (when i check the properties of the WMV file):

- Picture Size: width 720 pixels, height 576 pixels
- AUDIO Bit Rate 1357 kbps
- Audio Sample Size 16 bit
- Channels 2 (stereo)
- VIDEO data rate 1195 kbps**
- Video Sample Size 24 Bit
- Stream Name Video 2

** On other video I have captured using the same method the video data rate is ususally around 1600 - 1700 and the audio bit rate is up around 7000 - 9000. Could this be my problem (low bit rate??) If so how do I increase this? If this isn't the problem I'm hoping someone here can help me. Sorry for the large post but I wanted to give as much info as possible. The programs I'm using usually work fine for all the other DVD's I've made (so I'm hoping this problem can be fixed without buying / downloadnig anymore progams) but trying to get these 3 scenes right is driving me crazy!

Thanks in advance for helping...

[Yobbo]

Breeding in this day & age is criminally irresponsible. Go kill yourself, dickwad!

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning.
/ Moderator vitualis

[thecoalman]

Here is a list of what I've been doing:

-Capturing the video as High Quality Video (PAL) with the following options
- File Type - WMV

Capture using DV-AVI which would be an exact copy of what's on your cam, from there you can follow what you have been doing. WMV is for creating video for the web or where high compression is needed, at no point should it be used for capturing or editing for DVD playback. the only scenario where WMV capture is viable is if your going to use the file as is.

[Richard_G]

What the Coalman said but adding that the jerkiness is probably due to incorrect field order. If you stay as DV AVI right through to the encode to mpeg stage, the field order should remain correct. Don't ever use wmv, it isn't worth the hard drive space the encoder takes up.....

[Waverley73]

Thanks alot for your comments (obviously excluding the waste of space that was a post by Yobbo - I'm assuming the mods take care of absolute drivel such as this).

So if I capture the scenes I want as DV-AVI, and keep the movie file in that format right through until I burn the DVD the results should be better?

The other movies I've been making are around an hour long (just home vid stuff of family) so capturing them as DV-AVI will mean a file size of around 10 to 11 gig. My hard drive is Fat32 (as opposed to NTFS) which has the max file size of 2 gig. I've read the pros and cons about reformatting my hard-drive to NTFS but I want to be absolutely sure doing that wont have any adverse effects on my current programs / files.

[MrMoody]

Most importantly, Richard_G is correct, the field order is likely the cause of the problem. Moving objects will jump forward & backward when it's wrong. You won't be able to see this on the PC either, by the way, unless the viewer/player "bobs" the video.

Most if not all DV is Bottom Field First and needs to be encoded in MPEG2 that way. Some encoders have a setting for this, others rely on an indicator from the input.

[thecoalman]

What the Coalman said but adding that the jerkiness is probably due to incorrect field order. .

That could be but it could also be the result of the WMV format or encoding to WMV on the fly.

it isn't worth the hard drive space the encoder takes up....

Unless you have the need for web video... it's the most universally acceptable format. It can also be used for example if you just want to throw some video on CD.... It has it's uses just not in this setting.

I've read the pros and cons about reformatting my hard-drive to NTFS but I want to be absolutely sure doing that wont have any adverse effects on my current programs / files.

As stated on MS's site it's not 100% fool prof if you convert but disc corruption is not likely. Backup any irreplacable material first. Some capture programs will let you split the capture by file size as an alternative.

[thecoalman]

(obviously excluding the waste of space that was a post by Yobbo - I'm assuming the mods take care of absolute drivel such as this).

Banned..... what's really odd is that account is 1.5 years old and that was his first post.

[Barnabas]

Waverley73,
Reverse your field order.

[SLK001]

I'm still trying to figure out what Waverly73 said that was so offensive. Using WMV? Not a well informed choice, but certainly not offensive.

As stated in other posts, I also believe that your problem is field order (especially if the jerkiness is only in the scenes with heavy movement).

[Waverley73]

I'm still trying to figure out what Waverly73 said that was so offensive. Using WMV? Not a well informed choice, but certainly not offensive.

As stated in other posts, I also believe that your problem is field order (especially if the jerkiness is only in the scenes with heavy movement).

It wasn't what I said - it was the idiotic reply by 'Yobbo' that was offensive.

[Waverley73]

Waverley73,
Reverse your field order.

How do I do that (I'm as is referred to in the classics as a newbie...)? Which program out of Windows Movie Maker, WinAvi or Nero (the three I'm using) do I use to reverse the field order? I haven't actually seen that option anywhere.

The thing that confuses me is that all the other video I've captured using the same methods have all worked fine..

[thecoalman]

How do I do that (I'm as is referred to in the classics as a newbie...)? Which program out of Windows Movie Maker, WinAvi or Nero (the three I'm using) do I use to reverse the field order? I haven't actually seen that option anywhere.

You won't have that option capturing DV-AVI, you will with whatever you use to encode/convert the DV-AVI to DVD compliant mpeg. If you don't I'd suggest getting a different encoder. Use bottom or lower field first, whichever it's listed as.

[Waverley73]

How do I do that (I'm as is referred to in the classics as a newbie...)? Which program out of Windows Movie Maker, WinAvi or Nero (the three I'm using) do I use to reverse the field order? I haven't actually seen that option anywhere.

You won't have that option capturing DV-AVI, you will with whatever you use to encode/convert the DV-AVI to DVD compliant mpeg. If you don't I'd suggest getting a different encoder. Use bottom or lower field first, whichever it's listed as.

I use WinAvi to convert to the DV-AVI to DVD mpeg. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't have any options relating to field order. Maybe I should get another converter program to use instead of WinAvi ($30 well spent yeah... ) I don't suppose there are any decent freeware converters I could use that would allow me to edit the field order?

[thecoalman]

I use WinAvi to convert to the DV-AVI to DVD mpeg. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't have any options relating to field order. Maybe I should get another converter program to use instead of WinAvi ($30 well spent yeah... ) I don't suppose there are any decent freeware converters I could use that would allow me to edit the field order?

I'm not familiar with that app so I don't know, but I suggest trying it first. If you have the wrong field order, or it has the wrong field order selected you'll be able to tell during scenes with high movement.

[Waverley73]

I use WinAvi to convert to the DV-AVI to DVD mpeg. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't have any options relating to field order. Maybe I should get another converter program to use instead of WinAvi ($30 well spent yeah... ) I don't suppose there are any decent freeware converters I could use that would allow me to edit the field order?

I'm not familiar with that app so I don't know, but I suggest trying it first. If you have the wrong field order, or it has the wrong field order selected you'll be able to tell during scenes with high movement.

I'll check the program tonite but I'm 95% sure that WinAvi doesn't have any options on field order. Yeah, the scene I'm trying to do does have movement and it is very shaky - but when there is no movement everything is fine.

[thecoalman]

Yeah, the scene I'm trying to do does have movement and it is very shaky - but when there is no movement everything is fine.

As I said above that can caused by using WMV at the lower bitrate or converting to WMV on the fly. You should see a significant improvement in the quality of your final product regardless of whether the shakiness was caused by wrong field order or WMV.

[Waverley73]

Yeah, the scene I'm trying to do does have movement and it is very shaky - but when there is no movement everything is fine.

As I said above that can caused by using WMV at the lower bitrate or converting to WMV on the fly.

Yep got it - I will try to recapture the scene again over the weekend as a DV-AVI file and see how it goes. By what you've said I reckon it should turn out better.

Thanks for your help on this.

[thecoalman]

. By what you've said I reckon it should turn out better.

It will be even if the jerkiness is still present.

[SLK001]

I'm still trying to figure out what Waverly73 said that was so offensive. Using WMV? Not a well informed choice, but certainly not offensive.

As stated in other posts, I also believe that your problem is field order (especially if the jerkiness is only in the scenes with heavy movement).

It wasn't what I said - it was the idiotic reply by 'Yobbo' that was offensive.

I meant what was it that you said that Yobbo found so offensive.

[laspis59]

I'm still trying to figure out what Waverly73 said that was so offensive. Using WMV? Not a well informed choice, but certainly not offensive.

As stated in other posts, I also believe that your problem is field order (especially if the jerkiness is only in the scenes with heavy movement).

It wasn't what I said - it was the idiotic reply by 'Yobbo' that was offensive.

I meant what was it that you said that Yobbo found so offensive.

Waverley73 said nothing that anyone could find offensive.Yobbo was just trying to offend for no reason whatsoever.Yobbo must be a very MISERABLE person indeed.

[SLK001]

Is this something new? Like a "drive-by" flaming? Or an act of random character assasination?

[Waverley73]

Is this something new? Like a "drive-by" flaming? Or an act of random character assasination?

If anything he's assasinated his own character (or what there was of it)...

[MrMoody]

With only 1 post, I'm assuming it was a police assisted suicide of an unused account.