China is censoring bloggers with the help of Microsoft

[rkr1958]

Bloggers Blocked

The Chinese government has blocked Web loggers, or "bloggers," from using what it deems to be inappropriate language in their online entries. Among the words banned: "democracy," "freedom," and "human rights."

When Chinese users of a new Microsoft (search) "blogging" program begin to type those words in the subject line, a message pops up saying, "Prohibited language in text, please delete." The ability to do that comes courtesy of Microsoft, which admits helping censor online content in China. The Chinese government often demands such cooperation before letting Internet-related companies do business inside its borders.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159584,00.html

[shelbyGT]

I'd kinda side with MS on this one. Why go through the hassle with the Chinese government when it's so much easier to placate them?

While I don't agree with the Chinese laws, a business doing business there must comply or face the consequence.

[Cornucopia]

Sorry ShelbyGT,

I wanted to read your blog that you mentioned in your signature, but China/M$ wouldn't let me.

Wouldn't it be nice, though, to see a big corporation actually have a spine (and a conscience)?

Scott

[Noahtuck]

Wouldn't it be nice, though, to see a big corporation actually have a spine (and a conscience)?
Scott

Yep, just goes to show once again what a piece of shite MS is...
Out for the extra $20 million!!!! 8)

[vitualis]

Sorry, but you people are all silly. If you want to do business in a country, you have to abide by the local laws. You expect Microsoft to abide by American laws in the US don't you?

Regards.

[adam]

Microsoft's participation in this also has got to be more benign than the article suggests. I'm sure the Chinese govt. didn't say, hey microsoft can you make sure and block "freedom," "democracy," and "baby kittens?" I'm sure they requested the ability to automatically censor the words of their choosing and MS complied.

Tons of software gives you the option to auto censor certain words. Its a useful and often necessary feature if used responsibly. I think you've got to lay the blame on China here.

[Noahtuck]

"democracy," "freedom," and "human rights."
Yeah... those are some awful words or concepts that should be censored

Blame china... okay, lay some blame on MS for just thinking of making another $20 million on top of the billion's they already have... you bet!!!!!!!

If you want to do business in a country, you have to abide by the local laws.

Does not mean you should though, just for a buck

I wrote more but decided to change it because i don't want to get political 8)
And it would be very hard not to, to really make a good arguement

[Cobra]

If you're in business, you do your best to accommodate your customer's needs. That's all Microsoft have done here. Nothing wrong with that. Also, as vitualis quite rightly points out, you must also respect the law.

[VCDHunter]

If you're in business, you do your best to accommodate your customer's needs.

True, but as people Microsoft could've taken a moral stance and suggested to the Chinese that the brutal repression of millions of people is something they weren't really comfortable with, but we all know Microsoft don't we ?

That's all Microsoft have done here. Nothing wrong with that. Also, as vitualis quite rightly points out, you must also respect the law.

Utter bollocks. You don't blindly follow anything simply because its the Law. I think you'll find the "just following orders" excuse died on its arse in the hague.

[Cobra]

Utter bollocks.

Don't hide behind elaborate words and complicated metaphores. Let me know what you really think!

[thecoalman]

I'd have to side with MS too, there's word filters available on just about everthing. How they are set up and used is at the discretion of whoever is the customer. There's word filters for this forum..... just not being used. If Baldrick set them up it would be like blaming phpbb.

[VCDHunter]

Utter bollocks.

Don't hide behind elaborate words and complicated metaphores. Let me know what you really think!

Sorry, I'll try and keep it simple and concise in future. :P

[Noahtuck]

I'd have to side with MS too, there's word filters available on just about everthing. How they are set up and used is at the discretion of whoever is the customer. There's word filters for this forum..... just not being used. If Baldrick set them up it would be like blaming phpbb.

Well, from the way i read the original post it has nothing to do with "word Filters" on everything

For them to control this countrywide MS obviously had to make an altered version that precensors these words. if you read the OP it states that
"The ability to do that comes courtesy of Microsoft, which admits helping censor online content in China."

As i stated in my OP, yeah, those are some horrific words we definately don't want getting out there

VCDHunter hit it pretty good which is what i was gonna get at but i was afraid i was gonna be a little too political so decided to leave it where i did

Yeah, if they want to sell their product in a certain country of course they have to comply with those laws, does it mean they should ? sure if ya just care about more money

And as far as respecting the law, well that's just a joke in this instance as far as im concerned, there are alot of things that are "legal" in some parts of the world, but the majority of civilization consder them VERY IMMORAL!! just because it's legal in one little corner of the world, well, i guess it's legal there so it must be alright if i do it there

[adam]

Well, from the way i read the original post it has nothing to do with "word Filters" on everything

Of course it does. I'm positive that is exactly what is happening because if you want to block words at the discretion of the user you don't program a new version for each company that wants to block different words. That is ridiculous. You code the ability to autoblock whatever words you want and let the customer use the software however they want. Tons of software has this ability.

MS's software has a word filter, that's all. MS acknowledges that China is using the word filter to censor its citizens. That's all.

[garman]

Maybe I'm wrong here but MS does not have to take the high ground on this matter or any matter that requre moral fiber. They only have to do one thing. Take care of thier SHARE HOLDERS. Then spend gobs of money on spin doctors to keep thier image clean to the product holders. garman

[MeDiCo_BrUjO]

It's not like Microsoft volunteered to repress freedom of speech in China; they started their business there, and have to abide to the laws there. If there is someone to blame, that's the government of China.
This news are a big deal because it's about big bad microsoft...
I read an article too that said that Yahoo and Google are doing the same thing, but nobody has said nothing about them.

[Noahtuck]

Well, from the way i read the original post it has nothing to do with "word Filters" on everything

Of course it does. I'm positive that is exactly what is happening because if you want to block words at the discretion of the user you don't program a new version for each company that wants to block different words. That is ridiculous. You code the ability to autoblock whatever words you want and let the customer use the software however they want. Tons of software has this ability.

MS's software has a word filter, that's all. MS acknowledges that China is using the word filter to censor its citizens. That's all.

What i was TRYING to say was, obviously MS is programing their software to atuo block these specific words, because it would be insane to think the chinese govt. would have the time or resources to monitor all the people using it..... so yes, MS would have to program a new version to block these words and phrases because if they sent the standard version it would be up to the indavidual user what they wanted to block.... unless of course the "chinese govt." wanted to go after each person and prosacute them as they found them for using such word's as "democracy," "freedom," and "human rights."

Bottom line, no matter how YOU want to try and justify it... MS is out for the $$$$!!!!!!!

[thecoalman]

What i was TRYING to say was, obviously MS is programing their software to atuo block these specific words, because it would be insane to think the chinese govt. would have the time or resources to monitor all the people using it..... so yes, MS would have to program a new version to block these words and phrases

I think your misunderstanding, for example this forum has the ability to filter words. It's a standard feature in all phpbb distributions and I'd imagine every other forum available. It can be enabled for any word, there's even a standard list they provide you can use if you want. If Baldrick blocks a word are the distibutors of phpbb to blame? I don't know the details but I'd imagine MS is just supplying the software, how it's used is up to the customer.

[offline]

The fact is we do not know for sure the full nature

of the software. Is the function inbuilt into the browser
or is it purely server side? Regardless Microsoft is not
doing anything that a thousand business before them
have not done. To do any business in China is to conform to
their laws and customs - period.

If you want to condemn a company, try one like the
Australian mining outfit Anvil. Recently they flew
over a hundred Congolese troops to their remote mine
and provided four wheel drives and other support so that
they (the troops) could murder a bunch of
unarmed protesters.

Just another international war crime that has pretty
much slipped under the radar.

[thecoalman]

The fact is we do not know for sure the full nature

of the software. Is the function inbuilt into the browser
or is it purely server side? .

Very true and one of the troubles with this article, there's not enough information to know what they are doing. If MS is simply providing blogging software with the ability to filter words they are hardly to blame. Is it on a MS server or someone else's? Even if it's on their server within the confines of China I still don't see what the issue would be.

As it's been stated if that's the law then that's the law. There in business to make money and if that's the price to do business within China so be it.

[adam]

obviously MS is programing their software to atuo block these specific words, because it would be insane to think the chinese govt. would have the time or resources to monitor all the people using it

It is the chinese govt. that IS using it. Its not that complicated. The software gives the admin of the site the ability to specify words to censor. The Chinese govt. worker who runs the administration of these blogs is told to input "democracy," "freedom," and "human rights" and now anyone who posts on the blogs is prevented from using these words. Countless blogs across the world have the same functionality and block all kinds of words.

It is absolutey ludicrous to think that MS catered the software to specifically block out these words. If it is software which would be used to run a blog then it would have the ability to censor words, any words, as a standard feature anyway.

Yes when MS sells their software they are doing it solely for the $$$. That is what corporations do.

[Cornucopia]

It would be interesting to find out if "freedom" was blocked, but "fr33dumb" wasn't. That would mean there was a static (but expandable) wordlist blocking filter. In that instance, the power of the human imagination to come up with creative alternatives would probably always outpace the efforts of a censor.
OTOH, if alternative I-net type spellings like that were caught, it would probably mean that there was some specially built HEURISTIC, in which case it sound to me like M$ was custom-building the thing for China.

There(sic) in business to make money and if that's the price to do business within China so be it.

I know it's skirting politics, and I'm sure I'm sounding like a liberal you-know-what, but that's what BOYCOTTING is all about, even with an 800 pound gorilla like China. It has worked before (witness South Africa). Businesses do have a choice of passive resistance just like people do. Both businesses and people do so at their peril, but ideals are still important--perhaps more important now than ever.

Scott

[adam]

I used to help run a few irc sites and we had automsg then kick scripts to censor certain words. You can download word lists for just about anything that contain every possible alpha numeric representation anyone could think of. Or you can just make your own and add new words on an ad hoc basis as people find ways around the existing list. Its truly a non-issue and just one of the jobs that a site administrator must perform.

To think that MS custom made the software for these 3 words is just naive.

[BJ_M]

anyway - even if you find a word there that is on the list, a representation of it anyway - you can still go to jail for it and/or the meaning of the the message..

doesnt mater how you spell it or symbolize it ... and encryption is not legal either , except if you have sent your decrypt keys to the goverment .. otherwords, it is useless to even try ..

[shelbyGT]

Bottom line, no matter how YOU want to try and justify it... MS is out for the $$$$!!!!!!!

You think? Show me one for-profit agency/business that ISN'T in it for the money? The reason I work 40 hours a week at a minimum is for the money. Being in it for the money isn't such a bad thing.

[garman]

Bottom line, no matter how YOU want to try and justify it... MS is out for the $$$$!!!!!!!

You think? Show me one for-profit agency/business that ISN'T in it for the money? The reason I work 40 hours a week at a minimum is for the money. Being in it for the money isn't such a bad thing.

Not being rude but..... working for just money is not good thing either. Lots of money to be made in child porn, selling dope to children. Laying off employees to meet corporate needs of the shareholders. The issue with MS is morals. This is a company that comes from the free world and turn around and assist another country to do the opposite.
I think we should all work, but picking what's good and bad is a choice we have to make. I'm sure hookers can do better than selling out thier dignity for some horny slob. But needing to feed her kids you get the picture. With MS it's totally different. How much more money does a multi-national company need? I think, they could have chose not to accept this puppy. IMO. -cheers.

[BJ_M]

their shareholders would not agree

[BJ_M]

Adopt A Chinese Blog


Ever since blog became popular in China, there have been a number of occasions where some blogs were shut down by telecommunications company or internet service providers due to their political speech. These incidents not only brought risks to bloggers themselves but also to blog service providers in China. Many blog service providers had to increase their effort in content filtering. All these brought pressure and helplessness to people who dare to make truthful expressions.

Especially since April 2005, when the law on non-profit website registration became effective, website owners are required to submit their real personal information when they register their websites. The annual registration process as well as hefty penalty for failure in compliance have angered many website owners that use an independent virtual server and domain names.

Therefore, many bloggers in mainland China began to consider moving their blogs outside of China. But because of language barrier, financial, payment and other issues, the cost of moving is rather high and the situation is not optimistic.

It is based on the belief of free speech that we started the Adopt a Chinese blog project. We hope that we and others on the internet who shared the same belief, can share resources and help bloggers who want to freely express themselves and find a safer space for blogging, so that they can continue to blog without retribution.

As a matter of fact, the goal of the program is to help bloggers. The support is not limited to any specific country. It is borderless and global. At least this is what we wish: let people freely express themselves, without the worries that their blog may one day be shutdown.

http://projab.jot.com/WikiHome

[thecoalman]

This is a company that comes from the free world and turn around and assist another country to do the opposite.

So what is it you suggest they do? The article isn't very clear but let's assume it's just standard filter on blogging software because that's what it sounds like to me. :P Should they remove it thereby losing a customer who will just switch to someone else who will provide software that they require. In all fairness if they were going to deny China software with word filters then they should do the same for all their other customers. If MS is selling this software to someone else such as site children frequent should they then too have the ability to filter words removed?

Here's my take on this article..... You have a reporter who threw in MS's name for the shock value so it gets sucked up by the public. Unfortunately this seems to be the norm in today's news reporting. Again under the assumption this is just standard software would you have the same reaction if it said "Microsoft software used to block children from using the f-word while blogging"? Oh, the horror.

[shelbyGT]

I don't work "just" for money, but damn right it's one of the more important reasons why I do work. Sure I like what I do, but I'd have to work even if I didn't like it. I need money to live... just like the rest of us.