Dropped frames only from VHS?

[echo1434]

Please bear with me here. My description is a little complex, but I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this by describing all the details.

After reformatting my secondary drive, I've been having great results with S-video capturing from my laserdisc player into my ATI 9600 Radeon Pro using MPEG-2 on the fly.

I just switched over to my VCR to do some VHS transfers (using composite) and suddenly started to drop frames. Switched back to my laserdisc setup, and can still capture for hours with no dropped frames.

Switched back to VCR setup... Even if I drop a couple frames in an hour, the synch gets really off. I then hooked up my S-video cable to my VCR, and the amount of dropped frames lessed, but didn't completely go away.

The first tape I tried was about 20 years old, so I figured that was the problem. After many tries, I finally got a good capture with only 1 dropped frame that had no bearing on the synch.

I then opened up a brand new, sealed VHS tape made just a few years ago, and while expecting this to go smoothly, now I'm getting about 10-15 dropped frames per hour and HORRIBLE synch.

I then wiped out my whole secondary drive again and reformatted. Have 160 gigs to work with. I even cleared up my primary drive a bit. No change. I always close down all background programs, etc.

I then tried converting to Hufyuv using VirtualDub, and even though frames were still being dropped, it did not cause any apparent synch issues like the MPEG captures did. However, I still don't like the idea that this is happening.

The only thing I can think of that's different is that I updated to all the latest ATI drivers that just came out about a week ago. I can't imagine it would make things worse, but it's the only change I can think of. I don't recall having this problem before, even with older tapes.

And again, laserdiscs still capture flawlessly. I'm sure the signal from these is cleaner, but I don't see how a brand new VHS tape would be causing frame drops.

The audio and video cables I'm using are top of the line. So is my soundcard. It does a great job recording from laserdisc. I even airdusted out my computer today, and it is running at optimum temperature. I've tried everything. So now I seek the advice of someone who knows more about this than I do! =) Thanks in advance.

[lordsmurf]

The only thing I can think of that's different is that I updated to all the latest ATI drivers that just came out about a week ago.

Why did you do it? As they say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
That very well could be it.

Or it could just be the VHS signal is rather poor.

Read this:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/dvdguides/capture/droppedframes.htm

[echo1434]

Because newer is always better, of course! =) Okay, I'm being sarcastic...

It all comes back to that AVI interlace lines problem you helped me with just a few days ago, where there was in fact no problem. I was talking to the idiot ATI tech support guy the day before that, and he convinced me that updating the drivers would make the interlace lines go away. I didn't believe it, but I was desperate at the time.

Fortunately, I have the previous drivers saved on my external drive. I'm going to get them back on here and see what happens when I have a little more time.

As for a weak VHS signal, I'm using one of the very latest JVC S-VHS models. I believe it's one of the better units out there. And I'm using top grade cables, so I don't know how the signal could be weak. Please correct me if I'm missing something here.

Thanks for the reply.

[ronnylov]

10-15 dropped frames per hour is not bad from a VHS source. Read section 9 in the link posted by lordsmurf above where he says that maybe 10 frames per hour is normal.

I use VirtualVCR when capturing VHS and the setting to automatically resample audio to sync with video and then it does not matter if dropping 10-15 frames per hour because it is still in sync.

[echo1434]

Yes, I have read that wonderful guide. It has provided me much great info.

The thing that was concerning me was that when capturing MPEG-2 on the fly, the dropped frames did indeed have a significant impact on the synch.

But as I mentioned, when capturing to AVI through VirtualDub, although a similar number of frames were dropped, it did not appear to affect the synch.

I know MPEG-2 encoding on the fly is some pretty heavy stuff, so I think I understand how things could get a little screwy if the source isn't 100% perfect.

[SLK001]

A capture card relies on the horizontal sync pulse to be perfect in order to properly capture the video (they rely on the pulse as a triggering event). Unfortunately, the horizontal sync pulse is the first thing that goes bad on a video tape. The sad fact is that the HS pulse is marginal to begin with on a new tape. Aging of the tape only makes bad things worse.

Don't ever expect to be able to capture a video tape with the same results that you achieve from a laserdisk.

[Weapon]

Try defraging your hard drive before you capture, that may help. I use Pinnacle Studio 9 to capture after defraging and get zero droped frames.

[INFRATOM]

VCR's don't usually have svideo out, so you may be using analog output. S-video can be found on digital stuff like dvd players which one is it . Is it a camcorder?. If you have dropped frames, increase your HD and CPU efficiency. use less intensive cpu conversion like less compression, use a codec that is less cpu intensive ...

[Sartori]

After I upgraded my pc , I had horrendous sync problems , although my Celeron rarely dropped frames my new AMD 2.1 dropped them like they were going out of fashion - My mistake ? I`d used the onboard soundcard , putting my soundblaster back in cured the problem 100% .

[echo1434]

UPDATE: This problem occurs only on commercially made VHS tapes. That explains the sudden onset of this problem. I was previously only transferring homemade recordings. What's the deal here?

By the way, does it hurt to have both composite and S-video cables plugged in at the same time on a capture device?

[Sartori]

Personally I would unplug the unused one just in case it causes interference ie stop a problem before it happens .

You have retried homemade tapes and they are ok ? and its just commercially made tapes are the problem .
If you are trying to cap commercially made VHS tapes , are they protected by macrovison ? If so , the ATi card won`t capture it (v.short answer - see below).
If this is the case , I`m not really sure as to the forums rules about giving advice about getting around this so I will decline to be on the safe side .

[lordsmurf]

Read this:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=246129

[SLK001]

Macrovision