250 GB Hard Drive Install – Old PC

[Jenny]

Hi.

I am thinking of adding A LOT of space to my PC for Editing Video.

I want to add a 250 GB Hard Drive to my computer.
I am considering this one: http://ca.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=894639/search=western%20digital%20250gb


Here are the specs of the PC I want to put the Hard Drive in to:
---------------
System:
Windows 98 (Second Edition)
4.10.2222 A

Computer:
AuthenticAMD
AMD Athlon(tm) Processor
448.0MB RAM
---------------


My only concern is that the PC is from 2000 and it doesn’t shut down from Windows anymore – it just hangs at the ‘Shutting Down’ screen - down – lol! I have to power off the computer from the back switch to turn everything off.


A few Quetsions:

- What do you guys think? Is this computer OK to add a Hard Drive to?

- Is a 250 GB Hard Drive too big for editing video? Will it be too Slow? Should I consider a smaller Hard Drive? Or multiple smaller Hard Drives?



Thanks.
Jenny

[redwudz]

I see a couple of problems. W98 can only handle files of 4GB size, though you can get around that by splitting the files. The 250GB may not be recognized by the OS. Should be able to fix that also.

If your computer has the problems you describe, you probably at least need to reinstall W98. The CPU speed is also important. If you want to work with video, the CPU should be close to 1Gz speed or more. Faster is better, slower, the system will crawl. More RAM would be helpful, also, though not required.

All in all, I wouldn't recommend it unless you have no alternatives. With what you have, I would probably go for a smaller HD, maybe 80G, but that's up to you.

EDIT: To determine your computer specs, try CPU-Z. It will give the information about processors and speed. http://www.cpuid.com/

[budz]

First of all your motherboard may NOT SUPPORT that big of a hard drive. If it doesn't you could always purchase a PCI CONTROLLER CARD which you attach to a available PCI SLOT on your motherboard then attach the 250 gb hard drive to it. Regarding the shut down of the WINDOWS 98SE, there is a patch that microsoft had for that problem.

Fill in your computer specs in your profile which would be helpful in answering your questions.

[DaveS]

Hi Jenny - just a few thoughts to get a discussion started on this:

- What type of editing are you planning on doing and how many hours of video are you planning to have on the drive at once? What was the source and how are you going to get the video onto the PC? This will tell you if the drive is 'too big' 'too small' etc...while it would seem that 250gig is 'alot' of space, it might be alot for some uses and not enough for others. If you can say more about what type of project(s) you are planning that would help some. The drive you picked is a serial ATA, 7200 RPM with 8meg buffer, so it won't be 'too slow.' (see next point)

- How fast is the AMD processor you have (speed will be in Ghz)? Depending on that and the size of your current system drive (how big is it and how much free space left), your PC may hold you back more than your hard drive. I know many people do many things on 'older' PC's but you should consider which software you will run to edit - do you know yet? I'd be more concerned about a PC that may be slower than you'd like or s/w issues with Win98 (esp. if you have problems shutting down, which are common in win98).

- 450meg of ram may be enough to get you started or hold you for a while..biggest items will be above

If you can say a little more about your plans, people could comment better on your questions. Just in general, I'd be more concerned about the PC than the hard drive at this point, but fill us in a little and perhaps we can narrow it down and give you some pointers on specific tasks that you'd want to do and suitability for that based on people's experiences on similar machines.

[Noahtuck]

Okay... first off.... is it just me or does she state somewhere what her CPU is ??
And where does she state what MB she has to justify a comment like "First of all your motherboard may NOT SUPPORT that big of a hard drive." ??

[jimmalenko]

I've got a funny feeling you might struggle getting Win98 to recognise the drive in its full capacity - after all, even Windows XP was limited to 137GB hard drives when it first came out. I can't say for certain (as I've never specifically tried it), but I think you'd have to know your way around fdisk or a similar disk utility to partition the drive into smaller sizes.

[ulapines]

I doubt that the mobo will support serial ATA

[budz]

And where does she state what MB she has to justify a comment like "First of all your motherboard may NOT SUPPORT that big of a hard drive." ??

Ummmmm her motherboard may NOT SUPPORT a 250 gb hard drive which is why I made that statement. Not all motherboards from year 2000 may support a hard drive bigger than 160 gb. :P

[dcsos]

budz says:

her motherboard may NOT SUPPORT a 250 gb hard drive which is why I made that statement. Not all motherboards from year 2000 may support a hard drive bigger than 160 gb

Right you are..She cannot put that drive inside such a machine.
And the limit comes at 137 GB so the largest internal would be 120

I have alot of experience with this. Many of the external DRIVE BOXES will have a chipset inside that will not support theses drives either.

Best bet, because WIN 98 will recognize all 250GB in an external drive if you buy the drive already in a case that supports the drive's large size.

If you put such a drive in a old machine, it will appear supported
The giveaway is you will only be able to format 137gbs oft he 250.and if you ever put over this amount on the drive, you will lose all the files (it will destroy the partition most likely)

So you could use such a drive extenally,a and for VIDEO work I prefer FIREWIRE to USB2

[Jenny]

Hi everyone! Thanks for all the help


DaveS asked a whack of questions, so I thought I’d start there.

What type of editing are you planning on doing and how many hours of video are you planning to have on the drive at once?

- I want to tear apart pieces of a 45 minute Show. Take out and isolate short clips from the Show.
The type of editing? I’ll also be creating short 2 to 15 minute clips (sketches) for my audience to view. I will be adding effects to these videos – all the fun stuff the video editing program will let me do!

- As for the second part of your question, I am pretty flexible for the amount of video I plan to have on my hard drive. Let’s say 4 hours for the sake of argument. However, if this is a problem, then I would consider burning all my Shows to DVD to get them off of my PC.

What do you think?

What was the source and how are you going to get the video onto the PC?

What do you mean? What was the Source?

I am filming the Show on a home-use Video Recorder. I plan on extracting the video with the program that comes with the Video Camera. However, if you guys think a program like Vegas Video would be better to do this proceduce…then I’d definitely consider doing that instead.

If you can say more about what type of project(s) you are planning that would help some

- Take raw short clips out of my Show and adding minor effects to them (with the Video Editing program I have – let’s say Vegas Video).
- Create short 2 to 15 minute sketches for my audience to view. I would be recording these all over the city and editing them with lots of effects!

How fast is the AMD processor you have (speed will be in Ghz)?
Depending on that and the size of your current system drive (how big is it and how much free space left), your PC may hold you back more than your hard drive.
I know many people do many things on 'older' PC's but you should consider which software you will run to edit - do you know yet?

- AMD Processor is 700 Mhz.
- The size of the Hard Drive is 20 GB. I will have 15 GB of free space.
- I will be using Vegas Video.


Hope this helps! Thanks again.
Jenny

[Jenny]

You other guys sparked a few questions for me too!

dcsos wrote:

So you could use such a drive extenally,a and for VIDEO work I prefer FIREWIRE to USB2

Why do you prefer this? How would I use the Firewire Card? To transfer the video to my PC?

Can you even transfer Video to an external hard drive via FIREWIRE? Do external Hard Drives have FIREWIRE ports?


redwudz wrote:

CPU should be close to 1Gz speed or more.

Why is this?

…Thanks for CPU-Z.


See ya.
Jenny

[spiderman2k1]

You have to go into the control panel, and go to power setting; and click on some thing I think called AMP setting that will fix you shut down problem, or some thing. I fix this problem but I had Windows2000.

Now you have a old PC so you might not be able to put in a large hard drive some. You have to read your manual.

It will come with a boot disc that can trick your PC to take the hard drive.

[DaveS]

Jenny - from the sony vegas web site:

4.0 System Requirements
The following lists the minimum system requirements for using Sony Pictures Digital Vegas:
Microsoft® Windows® 2000 or XP
500 MHz processor
150 MB hard-disk space for program installation
128 MB RAM
OHCI compatible i.LINK® connector/IEEE-1394DV card (for DV capture and print-to-tape)
Windows-compatible sound card
CD-ROM drive (for installation from a CD only)
CD-Recordable drive (for CD burning only)
Microsoft DirectX® 8 or later
Microsoft .NET Framework (included on CD-ROM)
Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.0 or later
QuickTime™ version 6.0 or later (for .mov, .qt, .dv, .gif, and .tif file support)



Vegas® Movie Studio™ Release Notes
November 2004
4.0 System Requirements
The following lists the minimum system requirements for using Sony Pictures Digital Vegas Movie Studio software:
Microsoft® Windows® 2000 or XP
500 MHz processor
150 MB hard-disk space for program installation
128 MB RAM
OHCI compatible i.LINK® connector/IEEE-1394DV card (for DV capture and print-to-tape)
Windows-compatible sound card
CD-ROM drive (for installation from a CD only)
Supported CD-Recordable drive (for CD burning only)
Supported DVD-r/-rw/+r/+rw drive (for DVD burning only)
Microsoft DirectX® 8 or later
Internet Explorer 5.0 or later


so... win98 isn't supported for either..and although they say 500mhz is the min requirement, I would think you'd want much more to edit comfortably, esp. with 'alot of effects'....even if you upgrade your PC to winxp, I don't think you'll be that happy editing on it.

[budz]

just my 2cents....you're better off with getting a new pc with a faster cpu.....heck you could probably get away with buying a emachine to do your video editing....again that is just my 2 cents....

[rumplestiltskin]

Agree with budz; buy one of those $199 barebones units from TigerDirect (with the AMD Athlon 2800+ or similar), a $70 Pioneer DVR-108 or 109, and that 250GB HD. Might have to add a bit of RAM but that's $50 or so for a 512MB module.

Presto; you're done.

[DaveS]

Agree with budz; buy one of those $199 barebones units from TigerDirect (with the AMD Athlon 2800+ or similar), a $70 Pioneer DVR-108 or 109, and that 250GB HD. Might have to add a bit of RAM but that's $50 or so for a 512MB module.

Presto; you're done.

yup..

[redwudz]

I mention a 1Ghz or faster processor because a slower one will work, but editing programs may operate much slower than a higher rated processor. If that's what you have to work with, then OK.

I would still recommend a internal 80G drive for your W98 machine as that should be easily compatible with your computer. You might go to a 120G if you can find one reasonably priced. A 80G should be less than $60 US.

A external drive is another option. As mentioned, a 250G drive package with Firewire enclosure would probably work fine. Firewire is much better for large transfers like video, IMO. You would need a PCI Firewire card in your computer, but they are usually about $20 US.

It will work, but if you can afford it, a faster computer with maybe XP installed, along with USB 2.0 and maybe two HDs, one for the OS and one for editing would make your life a lot easier.

[dcsos]

Jenny doesn't sound much like a build it yourselfer..
at least she has the right 'research it properly' attitude ..
but for this her first experience she probably just wants to get going..
I'd reccomend any bargain intel chipset based system one could find
like this full system for Total: $ 404 w/60gb HD and 512 ram/DVD Pioneer 109

http://www.xtechnology.com/scr/xtcat.dll/prw?Item=PW-864&Opt=PW
add a firewire card and voila!
ready to run VEGAS

[D.A.R.J.R.]

Jenny doesn't sound much like a build it yourselfer..
at least she has the right 'research it properly' attitude ..
but for this her first experience she probably just wants to get going..
I'd reccomend any bargain intel chipset based system one could find
like this full system for Total: $ 404 w/60gb HD and 512 ram/DVD Pioneer 109

http://www.xtechnology.com/scr/xtcat.dll/prw?Item=PW-864&Opt=PW
add a firewire card and voila!
ready to run VEGAS

not to get off topic but thanks for that link. I am thinking about building a computer for the first time and that was helpful.

[nic2k4]

Just a note about fixing your shut down problem. Have you ever ran a spyware scanner on your PC? Some spyware will cause a PC to not shut down. Go here:

http://www.download.com/Spyware-Center/2001-2023_4-0.html?tag=dir

and download Adaware and Spybot, install them, then do the update and run them. If you installed Kazaa or you see NEW.NET or BRIGHT... listed, make sure to not remove them or your internet won't work anymore.

[gadgetguy]

My experience has been SATA + Video = bad.
I'm not even sure SATA is supported in Win98.

[neomaine]

Jenny,

Some excellent suggestions here for upgrading your PC. Not sure what your wallet will allow. But for all the great suggestions of even moderatly upgrading your CPU specs, I really suggest staying away from the 250gb drive.

Most importantly, don't use your C: drive for any of your video work...well, other than the programs. (Defragmentation is something you'll become familiar with ). This you seem to moderately understand.

Instead, I'd recommend getting two 120gb drives. This will do a few things for you. One, it keeps the drive space total under 127gb and should cause fewer problems to both Win98SE and your BIOS. In fact I'd be surprised if they weren't both directly supported. If not, the drives should come with drivers/software to allow it.

Secondly, it allows you to use one drive as the 'source' drive and the other as the 'destination' drive. Doing this helps keep defragging to a minimum and helps the drives from thrashing...have to read and write at the same time. Other than CPU, this would be your next biggest bottleneck.

[junkmalle]

Neomaine is correct, The EIDE spec from your computer's era had a 128 GB limit. At the very least you'll need a BIOS update or a new drive controller to use larger drives. Your computer probably doesn't have a SATA controller so avoid SATA drives.

If there's a Fry's near you they have drives on sale all the time. For example, today they have a retail boxed 120 GB Western Digital EIDE drive for $80 with a $30 mail in rebate -- final price $50. The rebates take 2 or 3 months though.

[DaveS]

My experience has been SATA + Video = bad

how so? what kind of drives, what has / hasn't worked,...?

[RMaddog]

Just a note about fixing your shut down problem. Have you ever ran a spyware scanner on your PC? Some spyware will cause a PC to not shut down.

Win98SE has a know shutdown problem. There is a fix for it on Microsoft's site.

Jenny your Motherboard will not support SATA drives. As for the 250 GB drive, you will probably need a BIOS upgrade to use all of the drive. Before you buy a 250 GB drive you will need to check your Motherboard manufactor to make sure they have a upgrade that will support the large drive above 127 GB.

You processor will work however, it will take forever to process your transitions. Your memory will be another issue. You are running at best PC/133 or single data rate. It will speed things up greatly to have large amounts of DDR or Dual Data Rate.

As your PC goes it will work but it will work very slowly, a couple of hours to render 15 minutes of video with transitions.

[dcsos]

Sata drives are especially good for VIDEO!
Just the opposite of what the poster saids
AVID now specifies to use SATA in the fastest, most expensive windows uncompressed systems
That said.
putting a sata drive in your own machine is a bitch. and you cannot load XP onto a SATA drive without interrupting the automatic load of files by pushing f6 during setup.
This discussion won't hep JENNY who shouln't put a SATA drive in that old machine

[rumplestiltskin]

If you installed Kazaa...

...then you're an idiot. (Sorry; couldn't resist; don't mean to start a flame.)

[Baatfam]

That said.
putting a sata drive in your own machine is a bitch. and you cannot load XP onto a SATA drive without interrupting the automatic load of files by pushing f6 during setup.

Sorry to hijack the thread but could someone explain this statement....
I was planning on picking up a SATA drive today for a new machine and will be installing XP....
Something wrong with that?

Thanks,
Bob T.

[Timoleon]

Jenny --- go for a new machine:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_tlc.asp?CatId=6

Get rid of Win98 and go with Win2000 or XP.

[handyguy]

From TD? Are you kidding?

Get one at Staples, they are on sale this week.