Honoring Australias Heros

[the bomb]

Saturday 2nd April, 2005

Nine dead in Australian chopper crash
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Big News Network.com Saturday 2nd April, 2005 (UPI)

All nine people aboard an Australian navy helicopter on a relief mission to earthquake-struck Indonesia died Saturday when the chopper crashed.

The aircraft, which was carrying nine people, went down off the coast of the island of Nias, ITV.com reported.

A Royal Australian Navy Sea King helicopter has crashed in the vicinity of Gunungsitoli on the island of Nias shortly after 7:30 p.m. Australian eastern time, an Australian Defense Department spokesman said.

The helicopter was from HMAS Kanimbla, an amphibious transport ship sent to provide relief after Monday's earthquake, which measured 8.7 on the Richter scale and left an estimated 1,300 dead on several islands west of Sumatra.

The Kanimbla is steaming towards the crash site, the defense spokesman said.

The cause of the crash was under investigation.

[Capmaster]

[AlecWest]

I second that. Australian servicemen have always been unsung heroes to most North Americans ... except those who have served with them. During my time in Vietnam waters on the USS Firedrake, we met up with the HMAS Hobart on a number of occasions. Until I told him, my son didn't even know that Australians fought in Vietnam ... and indeed, his history book at the time made it seem like the U.S. was going it alone.

There needs to be a lot more recognition of our Australian brothers and sisters in service and the sacrifices they have made and continue to make.

http://www.vvaa.org.au

BTW, a little news update. While they still haven't determined the cause of that helicopter crash, there seems to be a growing sentiment that the military is using out-of-date helicopters that sorely need replacement:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12747997%255E1702,00.html

[edit - fixed misspelled word]

[Capmaster]

Good point AlecWest. There were many countries participating in that conflict, spilling blood, like the ones in the mideast the US has been involved in. Few get the recognition they deserve.

I'll never forget an interview I saw on TV during the vietnam war. They were interviewing a typical Aussie soldier in the bush, slogging through the mud with everyone else, lugging a backpack and carrying a rifle.

The interviewer asked the Aussie "And what are you Australians doing here" The Aussie looked at the newsman like he was nuts, and replied simply "'Cause they're mucking with our mates"



After that, I have always had overwhelming respect for the Aussie code of honor and fair play. They are "no nonsense" about everything they do, and they speak their mind. Their actions speak louder than any words, and they have proven themselves true friends over and over. God Bless them

For them, our Digger mates,

[spiderman2k1]

The one thing I like about Australian's is that they always back up the USA.

If some thing ever happen to Australia the USA would back them up all the way. And thats some thing I would be proud of. To see my country back them up when we need help they always backed the USA up.

My prayers go out to their family and friends.

[northcat_8]

Good point AlecWest. There were many countries participating in that conflict, spilling blood, like the ones in the mideast the US has been involved in. Few get the recognition they deserve.

So true. Few get the recognition they deserve because the only voices you ever hear are those voices placing blame and since the USA are the ones to blame, the illusion of us acting alone is created.

[offline]

A sad time indeed. May they Rest in Peace.

One of my uncles served in Vietnam alongside what he termed his "American Brothers" and while he lamented at the level of training the regular troops got, he remarked that they made up for it, and more, with pure guts. A
similar story from my great uncle who served in
Korea.

[spiderman2k1]

USA are the ones to blame

The United States is not to blame for these wars.

This posting is about giving recognition to those that deserve it. Many Australians, and Britain's, Italians, Spanish, and other nations have fought besides the United States of America.

Let's just focus on the heroic Australians that stood for freedom. And the pursuit of a better world to which everyone should be a part of.

God bless the Australians military.

[AlecWest]

USA are the ones to blame

The United States is not to blame for these wars.

Of course we were. We were after all that Vietnamese oil, ya know.

Seriously, though, I think you took northcat_8's comment out of context. He wasn't saying the US was to blame, he was saying the the only voices that we heard were the voices of people trying to affix blame to the USA alone.

But back to the topic, Australia has "grounded" all Sea King helicopters. Many suspect they're way too old to be useful anymore ... and that the aging of these helicopters will eventually be blamed for the crash. The nine heroes are now on their way home. May they rest in peace.

[bigmicka]

thats a problem we seem to be having with alot of military equipment lately. its either too old, or badly designed.

we design leaky submarines which make too much sound and we buy old equipment of other countries.

as example we have purchased Sea Sprite helicopters from the US military, we payed $1 Billion dollars for them. the only problem is a couple of them were built in the 1960's for service in korea, the rest of them were built in the 70's during the vietnam era. they are going to be decked out with new electronics equipment, for the new age, but will that be enough? they are short range choppers so no going more than a certain distance and lastly while we payed a large amount of money for these the US government were giving these helicopters away to countries like Turkey and Libya. So why the hell did we buy them for so much when other countries were getting them for free?

this crash just highlights what our military does for others with limited amounts of training and equipment. i am proud of our military history, much of which goes unnoticed. When others are in trouble we are there putting our lives on the line. its a pity though that the relatives of those who died will not be receiving any type of compensation for their deaths. as this was not during a time of conflict but as emergency missions for those affected by the recent earthquakes in the indian ocean. Indonesia being one of those affected the most. i just wish the relationship between our countries was better not strained by the petty politics (hmm will this get locked) our leaders impose on us "Alexander Downer" you do more damage to this country than good.

rant over

mic

[northcat_8]

USA are the ones to blame

The United States is not to blame for these wars.

This posting is about giving recognition to those that deserve it. Many Australians, and Britain's, Italians, Spanish, and other nations have fought besides the United States of America.

Let's just focus on the heroic Australians that stood for freedom. And the pursuit of a better world to which everyone should be a part of.

God bless the Australians military.

AlecWest is right, I was not trying to shift the focus. Merely stating that the USA tends to catch all the blame for the current situation. Publicity basically put this out as a Bush/Blair crusade, while that is not the whole truth and many other Countries have sent men and women there to fight.

I do believe that Australian Military, Britain and many others are very deserving of the recognition they deserve and should be universally recognized for their fight for freedom as well.

And although I joke about the Brits being from "wankerland" and Australians being "North New Zealanders" with members of this board, any country who has people over there fighting for freedom has my utmost and sincerest respect.

[pacmania_2001]

thats a problem we seem to be having with alot of military equipment lately. its either too old, or badly designed.

It's getting better slowly.

One example is we're replacing the Vietnam era F-11's with the new JSF when they get delivered in a few years time.

this crash just highlights what our military does for others with limited amounts of training and equipment

I don't think lack of training is a problem, its only the equipment but apart from that you're right on. I still take great pride when I heard a few years ago that Australian pilots where beating US pilots in mock dogflights despite us using equipment that they called outdated.

[spiderman2k1]

"northcat_8" Sorry I'm misinterpret your posting.

[AlecWest]

I still take great pride when I heard a few years ago that Australian pilots where beating US pilots in mock dogflights despite us using equipment that they called outdated.

Australian's should take pride. Australia actually got in on the aircraft design business back in 1919. And this puzzles me. Not that Australia would ever want to become a weapons merchant like the USA, but what's stopping Australia from designing, building, and deploying their own aircraft ... and telling US defense manufacturers to take a hike?

In light of the Sea King helicopter crash, that would be a great question to put to Dr. Robert Lough, Chief Defence Scientist for DSTO.

http://www.dsto.defence.gov.au/corporate/history/jubilee/index.html#ahead

[pacmania_2001]

It's better in an economic sense for a smaller country like Australia to just buy military equipment from overseas for the most part. That way you don't spend billions developing something that may or may not work as planned. Also you get the benefit of being able to pick and choose your hardware like say a JSF from the US, a tank from the EU etc.

That said we still build alot of navy ships, vehicles and helicopters ourselves and their is still plenty of weapons research going on.

[vitualis]

As per pacmania. The issue is cost and our military research arm (DSTO) doesn't have much of a budget. Designing, testing and building military hardware requires amounts of money that we don't have.

Regards.

[offline]

To add to Pac and Vitualis's comments, Australia gets to test to destruction expensive military equipment for free which would otherwise cost us $$$$

Quite often we are buying back our own old technology but we don't have the business interest in R&D development here that you do in the US.

A significant deal of the base technology the US has in its aircraft and weapons is based on Aussie tech, designed and prototyped in the US and manufactured in Japan, France and Germany. Same with gene technology, primary production tech and many other areas.

[pacmania_2001]

Let's keep politics out of this one.

I'll leave the thread open and I won't remove the posts because they are too intertwined with the proper content but let's not delve into political bickering.