TBC or high end jvc vcr

[colt4523]

Right now I am contemplating purchasing a TBC or one of the higher end s-vhs JVCs. I already have a low end s-vhs JVC, so I was leaning towards just getting a stand alone tbc. I know the ideal method would be the a high end jvc and a tbc but I only want to buy one. The tapes I will be converting are mostly wrestling tapes that have been through many generations of dubbing. Also, most of the tapes were recorded in EP mode. Any help would be appreciated.

[Bruce Kuhn]

Colt,

I was going to ask the identical question. I also have a similar set-up. I also have a low end JVR S-VHS unit (I have both the 3600 and 3900), and a Pinnacle DV500 capture card that I've had for about 4 years. To date, most of my captures have been from S-VHS tapes, or DV captures through firewire. My wife owns a dance studio, and I make DVD's of her recitals. We have a professional video tape, then he provides good copies for me to capture. I then edit them with Premiere, and burn the DVD's. I have also done VHS copies of other things, but no real old tapes. I've never had any issues with any captures, and have not had the need to get other equipment. But, here is why I was going to ask this question.

I have some OLD hold VHS home movies. All of my kids growing up from birth. The oldest is 20 years old, was recorded on a full size VHS camcorder in 1985. From there, it migrates to Hi8 tapes, then to DV at present. My concern is capturing the old VHS tapes, and not the newer Hi8 or DV. These VHS tapes are not duplicates, and are the originals. The old VHS tapes can be played on any VCR, and the Hi8 tapes can be played on the original camera that I recorded with. I have not played them in years, and I want to capture these as soon as possible. I don't want to play them until I am ready to capture, because I fear they can break as soon as I play it. I also worry that each playing of the tape will degrade it even more. SO, I want to get the right equipment, and get a good capture the FIRST time. Since I have a S-VHS machine already (no TBC or DNR) would I be better off with using that, and getting the TBC-1000?? Or, would I benifit more buy getting the JVC 9911, and replacing the JVC 3900 VCR??

They may be fine, and not need either of these boxes. But, I figure a 20 year old tape will need help. I can't really afford both the JVC 9911 and a TBC-1000, so I wanted to know which would be the best to buy, if I only buy one unit. I know that the TBC-1000 will help the capture of the Hi8, as well as the VHS, but I doubt the Hi8 will need that much help. Since my main concern is the 20 year old VHS tapes, I figured the JVC 9911 would be the better investment right now. I can't say if any of these tapes has a "problem" right now, because I don't want to play them until I am ready to capture. So, I can't describe a problem they have, to know if the field based TBC-1000 would be the best, or the line based 9911 TBC plus the DNR would be of more help.

After reading through this site for days, and searching the web, I have decided I would benefit the most from the JVC 9911. I ordered it yesterday from B&H, so I hope I am right. I'm not sure if I made the right choice. I was hoping some of the experts on these forums would have answered your question. I know both units would be the best. But, since the budget in limited, and only 1 unit can be bought, which would be the better choice??

I hope I chose wisely..........

[colt4523]

Anyone else have any opinions on what I should purchase. I also thought about getting a standalone, but the quality of most of my tapes are pretty bad and I doubt a standalone would help.

[lordsmurf]

High end VCR (JVC 7000/8000/9000 series, for
example) with embedded DNR and TBC does the most to
CLEAN UP THE IMAGE. That's why it exists.

Standalone TBC is for STABILIZING THE IMAGE. It
corrects motion errors (like jitter) and sync/timing errors,
including artificial ones (Macrovision).

That is the difference.

(1) VCR TBC = CLEAN VISUAL QUALITY
(2) STANDALONE TBC = STABILIZE/PURIFY SIGNAL INTEGRITY

[fmctm1sw]

What kind of VCR do you have right now? The TBC-1000 and AVT-8710 are the popular consumer units right now.

[victoriabears]

e-cost have some refurbished 9911's right now, in Canada henrys want Can$600 odd plus taxes, Ecost will get it to canada all included Can$383.00!!

Good Luck.

[victoriabears]

This brings me to a question!----Nearly all of my tapes that need enhancing are in PAL.
Bringing them to DVD, whats the best option, keep them in Pal, if so, where could I get a high end equivalent pal jvc vcr, or should I use my advc300 and capture in PAL and use either tmpgenc or canopus procoder?
Or....... Get a simba type hardware thingy, all help would be most appreciated.

[lordsmurf]

Buy it from the UK. That's what I had to do. About $100 shipping.

Or do it the dirty way: Buy a PAL converting VHS VCR unit ($150 on eBay and other stores). Then record from PAL VHS to NTSC S-VHS. Play S-VHS with filters, etc. That actually works good too, though not as perfect. It just depends on the source errors.

[lordsmurf]

Read this too:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=250528

[colt4523]

I have a JVC HR-S2901U. I was wondering would this be better to pair with a tbc or should I just get a higher jvc.

[victoriabears]

Lordsmurf, thank you for your very constructive reply.
Which uk model did you get and from where, may links seem to lead nowhere from there these days.

[lordsmurf]

JVC HR-S7965EK from a store found on uk.pricegrabber.com or another similar site. That particular store only shipped in UK, so I had a friend buy it and then ship it. I paid him.

The 2901 is a terrible unit, even worse than 3000 series (which breaks a lot). Not the same. No TBC, less filters.

[gshelley61]

The build quality, tape transport stability and playback image of the 9000 series JVC S-VHS units is easily superior to the lower end models, even with the TBC/DNR turned off. A standalone TBC will only perform that specific function (sync pulse timing error correction and frame synchronization)... that is, the excellent video noise reduction and image enhancements that are in the JVC VCR's TBC/DNR processor don't exist in a standalone TBC.

Because the TBC in the JVC VCR's is only a simple line time base corrector (not a full frame corrector/synchronizer) some VHS tapes (like copy protected commercial movies, multi-generational copies or those that are in very bad condition) will benefit from both the TBC/DNR in the JVC VCR and the standalone TBC/Frame Synchronizer.

The short answer is... get both. Simply hooking up a standalone TBC to a lower end VCR with average playback quality is not the best you can do.

[colt4523]

I only want to get one or the other. I know that getting both would be the best route but I only want to spend $200-$300. Therefore, I cant get both.

[victoriabears]

If I were to consider a standards converter and a tbc I see that the ACE hardware is well thought of, but UK sourced?, and a Sign video processor?
I think getting a PAL equivalent of the 9911 is looking unlikely, jvc.co.uk do not even list vcr's anymore!
Your thoughts about these with my newly order jvc 9911u, from Ecost.

Also, the continued questions and answers about ntsc/pal conversions slightly baffle , and let me explain why:-

RJ tech make a dvd recorder where you can connect a pal vcr and record your dvd in ntsc and vice versa, what are your thoughts about the processor that this recorder uses? I also have a samsung 7000W, what do you guys think about that?

Also if I were to try and source a pal/ntsc convereter from Canada/USA what would be the suggestions?

Also(Again ), Cyberlink power producer will take a video file and copnvert it.

I find your views and experiences very interesting thats the reason for the post, most of my source material is good to very good, so is the ACE/Sign video route a bit of overkill?

I would love to put the pal/ntsc debate to bed once and for all with the rj tech dvd recorder it is being sold under tha curtis brand by London Drugs in BC,Canada, and really works well.

The reasons for all this darting around in aspects of the question, is that I am about to embark on a big transfer from vhs to dvd and to start some tests with the equipment I do have. as follows:-

Sony pal vcr slvt2000/PANASONIC PAL VCR NVHD 685
JVC hr5990am super vhs pal/ntsc dual vcr.
JVC 3600u super vch vcr
Samsung 7000W muslti standard converter vcr
ADVC 300
Pansonic dvd recorder dmr e85
sony dvd recorder rgrx300
toshiba dvd recorder x32

Two pcs both amd athlon(One a 64 bit 3400) both 1 gb ram both 300gb harddisks/both ge forec 5700le video cards.

Just very interested in your ideas/experiences, you guys are great.

[ZAPPER]

I know that you don't want to hear it again but both would be better. That being said, if you absolutly can only have one choice, I would say to get the best VCR deck that you can afford (I suspect that you will be getting a TBC shortly afterwards too) My logic for getting the best VCR goes like this. The tape to head transfer is the weakest link in the whole process. This is where the rubber hits the road so to speak. The better the machine, the better the odds that things will go smoothly. There is a fair chance that you may not need a stand alone TBC if the built in TBC does enough for you. Getting the most information off of the tape is the key, after that any processing, adjusting or tweeking can be done from a copy or inside your PC useing various equipment or software.

Try a few practice runs with some old tapes that don't have the high emotional value to see if the results are up to your expectations and to learn the process first hand.

Btw I use an old Zenith VCR I don't know what mod or who made the guts. I swear that it weighs 25lbs and I call it the "Fifty pounder" But this is the oldest and best playing VCR that I have. It plays anything that I throw in it, including tapes that have been eaten by other machines. If and when this baby dies I will gladly pay $100 to have it resurrected (Maybe more if it comes with a guarantee)

[Bruce Kuhn]

Just an update..........

I posted earlier that I had the same question, and after doing my research on this site, I decided to go with buying the VCR. Well, after having it for the weekend, I wanted to post my results.

Bottom line is that I could not have been happier going with the JVC. I agree with everyone that has posted here that having BOTH the high end VCR and the TBC is the ulimate wat to go. And, that eventually, I may end up buying the TBC as well. But, I have now converted 13 tapes over the weekend, most of which were between 15 and 20 years old. None of these tapes needed the TBC for stability, and they all needed the video cleaning the the JVC VCR provided. I was totally impressed at the picture quailty I was able to capture, and I now know that the VCR was a great purchase. Yes, I may run into a tape that will need the stability of a TBC, and I will have to wait to get one for that tape. But, in the meantime, ALL of my tapes have played well without the need for the TBC.

So, since you only have to money to buy 1 of your two choices (VCR vs TBC), I would go with the VCR. It will help ALL of your tapes, and you will be happy you have it. Eventually, you will probably get the TBC as well. But, the first purchase should be the VCR.

[colt4523]

It looks like I will go with the vcr. I plan on scouring the net to see if I can score a good price on one. I will save the really bad tapes for when I get a tbc. Thanks for the help.

[victoriabears]

Just done extensive research and www.ecost.com have the best deal/

These high end machines go for good money on ebay, might as well buy a jvc recon model from ecost, but depends where you are.

In the UK they seem very rare.

I have ordered one from ecost and gonna try it on its own then with my advc300 which has a TBC ?-is it a good one guys!

[GreyDeath]

Colt4523,

Heh, I just went throught the same sort of decision you did, but I had the high end S-VHS already with the Line TBC.

If you want to find my result and opinion, including some comparisons between raw and Line TBC captures, check it out:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=252957&highlight=

Although I have to disagree with LordSmurf on a Line TBC being "almost worthless". I find it does a valuable and outstanding job on my moderately crappy tapes, and a relatively good job on really dogcrap tapes with some scenes very rarely coming out worse than without it. IMO, I'd rather have a Line TBC than not.

[gshelley61]

The line TBC in the JVC VCR should work perfectly fine for capturing home video and tapes that are in relatively good shape (and are not copy protected). I'm glad to hear you are happy with the JVC.

[victoriabears]

Ok, insearching for a pal vcr equivalent of the jvc 9111, I see that jvc uk did make and is available at some placed a model which has 2mb digipure system

However(isn't there always) being more of a pansonic fan, i found this:-

http://www.electricshop.com/invt/4068pan109052a

Your views please, anyone, but lordsmurf if you can, I am beginning an experiment today trying all my gear with examples of recordings, and seeing if I even need a new pal vcr or if using the samsung 7000w or rj tech dvd recorder which will take pal and convert to record to ntsc dvd.

Will post text results, will not go to bother of image results, as Lordsmurf has said, every recording is different.

Thanks

[lordsmurf]

That link is for a Panasonic, and it's not the same thing.

[victoriabears]

Yes appreciate that lordsmurf, so you are saying that in your humble, it is not as good, I , being a panasonic fan, was looking for an alternative to the PAL JVC with digipure and 2mb memory, your opinion on the panasnoci was sought.

See my new topic, and the end of a long day, I am suprised by the reults.

[colt4523]

Well, it looks like ecost is out of refure hr-s9911u right now. Hopefully they get some back in stock soon

[tlegion]

Forget the JVC 99xx VCR. Buy a Sony TRV-460 camcorder. With a cheap VCR, it handles all of my old 10-15yr old tapes taking maybe two or three frames to resync itself after signal glitches. I have a 9901 and haven't used it since I bought the Sony.

[colt4523]

How much money is that going for?

[victoriabears]

here is the link, this item is sort of hidden when you search on ecost site, hope it helps:-

http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=436971

[colt4523]

The availability says "Call US", so I assume that means that they do not have any in stock

[victoriabears]

well id do not want to order another, but I got as far as filling our my address and cc info then stopped, may be just try to order one, the non-reconditioned ones are not that mnuch more, someone is selling one on ebay for close to Us$500!