The legalities of all this

[fmctm1sw]

This is frustrating. I gearing up to get my conversion business of the ground. I'm looking into different aspects of this and it just seems like nothing is legal. I looked into audio CDs since I figured I could go with a "convert your CDs to MP3 so you can listen to them in your car" type thing but that is illegal according to what Adam says in a thread I read. But why? Especially when there is software like MP3 Maker that does this. I guess only home movies can be done. I suppose I could just teach people how to do their own stuff and whether they used it for illegal purposes would be their own problem. I'd like to be 100% legal but it sure is tough. How are the people that run those VHS -> DVD websites doing this? Do they only do home movies? Any advice form someone running a business in this regard would be appreciated.

[guns1inger]

Yes, they only do home movies. The law differs from country to country, so it depends a lot on where you are setting up, but in general the person you are doing the conversion for must own all rights to the property you are converting.

In Australia, the current wording of the law makes it technically illegal to convert music from a CD to MP3 to play on your MP3 player, even if you own the CD. Other parts of the world allow the owner to convert music they own to another format for listening, hence the provision of software to enable this is legal, but doing for somebody is more grey than white.

If you are seriously considering setting up a business, you should consult a lawyer versed in copyright as well as business law so you remain clearly in the right.

[Sabro]

Also if ya look really deep down in to it, it's a wonder those CD->MP3, OGG etc rippers haven't come under fire like all the other drama events.

I believe it's Thompson Consumer Electronics that actually holds the copyright on the MP3 and to even think of converting to their standard (for commercial or private material) you must pay royalities.

Just a wonder there hasn't been a big explosion in this area yet.

Sabro

[adam]

In the US the right to backup musical recordings is provided under 17 USCS 1008. It states that you may use "digital audio recording devices" to make digital audio recordings for personal use. If you are making these recordings as a commercial service than it clearly cannot be considered personal use. That's why it is illegal. There actually isn't even such a personal use right in regards to video at all.

All of these CD->mp3 software are considered "digital audio recording devices" under this section. They are completely legal to use for personal purposes, and thus are completely legal to be sold as such. But it is impermissible to use them for commercial projects involving copyrighted material. If you want to provide a legal service you will have to ensure that your client's footage is either not copyrighted, or that the copyright is held by them.

[Sabro]

Thanks for the clairification Adam, guess I really need to change that 'It's always business and never personal' attitude I have eh? heh

Sabro

[guns1inger]

Fine if you're in the 'States.

To what end do you need to go to prove it is theirs to be legally covered. Is a document signed by the customer certifying their rights to the footage legally enough ?

[adam]

That would be a good start. But any country with copyright laws has the concept of constructive notice. If you have reason to suspect that the work is copyrighted, notwithstanding a signed agreement from the customer to the contrary, you still have to do a reasonable amount of investigation to ensure that it is in fact not copyrighted.

[NamPla]

The fact of the matter is, over the phone they'll say "sorry we can't", but over the counter they'll say "ok".

Here in Australia taping records or TV shows is still ILLEGAL. But everybody does it. Nobody gets arrested. What else are VCRs & tape-decks & DVD recorders for?

If "they" wanted to, "they" could sooo easily raid every home in this country and throw EVERYBODY in jail!!! No joke, EVERYBODY is a law-breaker to a certain degree. You have a VCR connected up to your TV? Video tapes/DVD-Rs of TV shows? Cassettes of albums? CDRs of albums? etc etc... Did you jay-walk on your way to work this morning? Did you smoke a joint when you got home?

My point is, don't let the law stop you from doing what you wanna do. Laws suck. They change from country to country, from state to state. They're hypocritical. They're revenue-raisers (ie thug-theft).

This is my opinion only, but I stick to it adamantly!

[RottenFoxBreath]

in all honesty,if you were going to pore over whats legal and whats not,you would be here to doomsday.
in reality,who gives a shit if it is or isnt.

[adam]

Well once you start doing this stuff for a business it is possible to show up on copyright holders' radars. I don't believe anyone should start a business without researching the legalities of it first. Its easy to ignore commerically oriented laws when you're at home with the curtains drawn, but successful businesses aren't run that way.

[NamPla]

You should qualify that and say "SMALL" business ain't run that way. If you're a big company, laws don't matter as much, yeah?

Why does blank media exist at all??

Why do they sell bongs, and yet marijuana is illegal?

Why do we have to lie on our resumes to get a job?

Why why oh why ???

Oh my this world is terrible...

[adam]

Very strange questions...

[Xylob the Destroyer]

...Laws suck. They change from country to country, from state to state...

& sometimes, from day to day....

have I broken the law, or am I ok in this:
I bought Metallica's S&M DVD. I thought the music was so cool that I wanted to listen to it in the car....
I don't have a DVD player in the car (I still don't understand the point of those...), so I used a program to rip only the audio and burned the resulting MP3's to CD.
Is this considered the same as making a back-up of the DVD I own, or have I twisted my Federally protected right to make a back-up of media that I have obtained through legitimate means?

[SEALs1230]

I'd say...start the business that you wanna start. Just have like a disclaimer sort of thing so you wont be liable for what people use your teachings for. That way you save your ass and still have a business.

[Zisguy1]

have I broken the law, or am I ok in this:
I bought Metallica's S&M DVD. I thought the music was so cool that I wanted to listen to it in the car....
I don't have a DVD player in the car (I still don't understand the point of those...), so I used a program to rip only the audio and burned the resulting MP3's to CD.
Is this considered the same as making a back-up of the DVD I own, or have I twisted my Federally protected right to make a back-up of media that I have obtained through legitimate means?

Whether or not you broke the letter of the law, clearly you haven't broken the spirit of the law -- this is obviously a case of fair use. That's what judges & juries really care about in court cases (no matter what they say), so I wouldn't worry about it... listen and enjoy with a clear conscience.

[SEALs1230]

have I broken the law, or am I ok in this:
I bought Metallica's S&M DVD. I thought the music was so cool that I wanted to listen to it in the car....
I don't have a DVD player in the car (I still don't understand the point of those...), so I used a program to rip only the audio and burned the resulting MP3's to CD.
Is this considered the same as making a back-up of the DVD I own, or have I twisted my Federally protected right to make a back-up of media that I have obtained through legitimate means?

How do you do something like that?? I've actually been wanting to do that with that same DVD, a Mudvayne LD.50 DVD as well. I dont wanna hijack this post so PM if you want and let me know...Thanks

[Xylob the Destroyer]

that's kinda what I was thinking/hoping
it's not like i'm selling it or charging people to listen
as far as distributing it goes tho...... do you think playing it REALLY FREAKIN' LOUD is considered distribution??

[Capmaster]

You should qualify that and say "SMALL" business ain't run that way. If you're a big company, laws don't matter as much, yeah?

Why does blank media exist at all??

Why do they sell bongs, and yet marijuana is illegal?

Why do we have to lie on our resumes to get a job?

Why why oh why ???

Oh my this world is terrible...

People never fail to amaze me ...what they consider "priorities". The whole existence of RIAA and MPAA rankles me to no end

[fmctm1sw]

I'd like to thank Adam and everyone else for their input. Many times these threads turn into rants about what's morally right (i.e. I already paid for VHS copies of Disney movies, so why do I have to pay again for DVDs?). I agree, it is frustrating. I'm going to try to keep it on the level though as best I can. I certainly can't afford a lawyer to help me though (that's what you guys are for)