DVD Burner: NEC or Pioneer?

[Bullworth]

I have an A04 that's worked faithfully with no problems except when the media is concerned but it's time to rev up.
So far it's come down between these two. I was looking at the Lite-On drives but there is a sea of mixed reviews that I decided against them. I was looking into maybe one of the older A08's just because with the cost of DL media it doesn't seem like a worthwhile investment for now. By the time DL media comes down so will the drives, newer and better I hope.
I've seen some pretty darn good prices at newegg even for the DVR-109 that I'm seriously considering just getting one if the info persuades me. Since I'm learning about bit-setting it this available on the 109 or NEC model 3520A and is this possible on DVD-R? To my understanding you can only do this on DVD+R. Just want some more info before making my decision.

[steve2713]

Honestly, I think you'll be happy with either one. They are both going to have some advantages over each other, but they're both great drives.

[ZippyP.]

Bitsetting is for +R only, the 108 bitsets only dual-layer disks out of the box. With Piodata firmware it can be flashed to allow bitsetting all +R disks, more info here.

[lordsmurf]

Pioneer

[doppletwo]

DVD-R is still more compatile even thoug it doesn't allow bitsettng.

But this is just my opinion of my experience.

Pioneer likes - better and NEC like +

but I use Taiyo Yuden DVD-R in my NEC and that work really good together.

[Epicurus8a]

Either would probably fine, but I just bought the 109. Why did I choose it over the NEC? Faith, I guess. I've had great luck with Pioneer in the past, and I hope they won't let me down this time. NOTE: the 109 has an NEC Chipset. So that seems to imply Pioneer is placing their faith in NEC.

[steve2713]

I think every one of the Pioneer DVD burners that has been made has used a NEC chipset, BTW. The one obvious advantage of the NEC is cost - it is ridiculously inexpensive for a DVD burner.

[dap]

I just installed a new NEC ND3500A and have no regrets.
I don't think you can go wrong with either, so if you have no preference go with which ever one is cheaper.

[chas0039]

NEC.

[only_emo_kid]

NEC3500ag

[lordsmurf]

Another thing to observe... check out the media forum, and look at all the "bad disc" threads, using GOOD MEDIA. The usual suspect is an NEC burner. Has been since the 1100 days.

For whatever that is worth.

[chas0039]

For my NEC 3500, I have had very good burns with Ritek G05, Ritek R03, Prodisc S03, Ricoh W11, and TY, hundreds of burns and no coasters. My PI errors have been in the teens and 20s except for the R03s that give errors in the 40s-60s.

[steve2713]

I've had zero issues with my 1300 and 2500, they've both been nothing short of great for me, from cheapo generic discs up to TY media.

From someone that actually owns two NEC burners, for whatever that is worth.

[samijubal]

NEC, many hundreds of burns, never made a coaster yet.

[Bullworth]

Well, seeing all the replies along with the rest of the info I've obtain I think I'm going to get both. Seeing that I shelled out $230 for the A04 when it came out and I can get both for less than that including shipping why not? lordsmurf has peaked by curiousity about the NEC having problems with what is reputedly good media and since I've only used Ritek, Primedisc and Prodisc with my A04 I think I'd like to check them out and see what comes up. Even though they use the same chipset I know there is always a performance difference. As soon as I get them I'll try to keep tabs on any problems with either one.

Actually to correct the above I also used some crappy cheap media that I purchased from Microcenter which are the ones that have caused the No TOC errors with my PC but play fine in a DVD player. The few that are recognized by the PC don't even show a media code so I have no idea who made them. The huge difference is that instead of a purple hue to the dye the color is like a cool pink.

[steve2713]

I would ABSOLUTELY not buy both of these two particular drives, if you are going to buy two new drives, I'd make one of them a Benq because you'll be able to do PI/PO testing on your discs, which is extremely useful if you want to guage the quality of your burns.

There are other drive brands that do PI/PO testing, but I've read that the Benq may be the most accurate at testing, despite the large amount of Liteon users that use them for PI/PO testing. And I think that Benq drives are better burners than Liteon.

[steve2713]

Regarding NEC drives working poorly with good media is pretty much BS from my experience and what I've read of NEC drives. I've never heard of anyone else suggesting that NEC drives having issues with good media, or any media for that matter. NEC drives are probably the best drives you can buy if you want a drive that will work well with the largest range of media. I've used a ton of different media codes with my NEC drives, and I've yet to find a single media code that the NEC struggles with, except for early Optodisc media, but Optodisc has been worthless in every drive I've tried it in anyway.

[Bullworth]

Thanks for the tip steve but what exactly does the PI/PO test do. I've read alot about people running these test on their media and burns and post how the results were x number. They will also post how the media will play fine but they are unhappy with high numbers. Does this refer to how well the media will play, how long the data will be readable, etc. Anywhere I can go for a simple explanation of all this?

[bazooka]

Either drive would be fine, but if it were me, I would buy the pioneer.

[steve2713]

It tests the number of errors on the disc. All discs have errors on them, but error correction is built into the way the data is stored and read off the discs. If you get a high enough numbers of errors, they become uncorrectable, which leads to skipping and unreadable sectors of the disc.

Here's a great site, and a great description in detail on how to interpret the results -

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=80545

PI/PO testing is not an exact science on readability of discs, but it is a great way to guage the quality of a burn.

[chas0039]

I would agree, I had a Pioneer and an NEC at the same time and there was no point in two drives that burn equally well, both of which would not do quality scans and both of which would not do bitsetting without hacked firmware. Since both of your choices are relatively new and untested it might be a good idea to wait and see what developes as people come in with test results and problems. If you have your heart set on 2 drives, I would again agree with Steve; get the BenQ 1620 and burn a while while you see what people say about the others. And a MAJOR agreement as to Liteon and BenQ. My Liteon is great for scanning but if I had a BenQ instead I could also burn something that didn't always need testing and tweaking.

[mattyboy]

Once the NEC has third party firmware and the riplock has been removed, its faster as a ripper and the burns are great!

[lordsmurf]

I would absolutely suggest against the BenQ drives. Those have never been very good. Experience with recent ones show buggy software support and picky media support (not good). The best drives are LiteOn and Pioneer. Everything else comes secondary.

Also, don't get too wrapped up in PI/PO tests.... totally worthless when used alone. Buy a good burner for burning, don't worry whether it works with a certain test program. You burn discs, you don't test them. Test with means available to you (DVDInfo Pro, Nero CD-DVD Speed, maybe kprobe, your own eyes).

If you want to rip fast, buy a DVD-ROM.

[chas0039]

smurf, Yours is the first strong comment I have seen in a long time that pans BenQ and praises Liteon. Interesting. I still hold out the hope that someday someone will give you an NEC 3500 so you can see for yourself.

One question, if you feel that the older Pioneer burners burn better than the newer Pioneers, based on your comments from the locked post, how can you consider Pioneer in the top two?

[samijubal]

I'd like to know why smurf considers Pioneer so great when he gets coasters with TY media? I'm very well over 1000 discs by now, Prodisc S03 and TY, and have never had a coaster or any type of glitch with the NEC.

[erdons]

Go with the pioneer, i have burned like 1000 tyg02's and yudent002's and i have yet to have a coaster.

[steve2713]

The newer Benq drives burn better than Liteon drives, although both favor +R media to -R media.

[lordsmurf]

I do not get TY coasters on the Pioneer, not often.
The BTC drives I have puke on TY.

At any rate, TY is overrated media. It is VERY good, but it's not the "best" to me. I put PVC, MXL, MCC and even maybe TDK above it. TY is just one of several high quality medias.

[budz]

lordsmurf wrote

would absolutely suggest against the BenQ drives. Those have never been very good. Experience with recent ones show buggy software support and picky media support (not good). The best drives are LiteOn and Pioneer. Everything else comes secondary.

I have to disagree with you on that......the BENQ 1620 is a good drive much better than LITEON.....it seems you base your experience with the BENQ because you said in another thread your friend had one that was crappy......show me where their is buggy software and picky media support for the BENQ 1620 drive.....try checking out the BENQ FORUM at cdfreaks.com, cdrlabs.com forum and see that others like the drive......i use MAXELL, VERBATIM, TAIYO YUDEN & SONY DVD+R media which burns flawlessly and have no problems in playing in any standalone dvd player.....i don't call that pickey media..... .......to each's own.....

Now back to this thread about NEC or PIONEER......
I throw in the BENQ 1620 if you can find one......check out the BENQ FORUM at cdfreaks.com.......they gave the BENQ gooo reviews and cdrlabs.com did the same as well.......automatic bitsetting for DVD+R media is one of the features that sold me on this drive.....firmware support is good and there is no need to use any hacked or third party firmware for the automatic bitsetting feature........enough said......

steve2713 wrote

The newer Benq drives burn better than Liteon drives, although both favor +R media to -R media.

yes you are correct about that but with the last 2 firmwares DVD-R media burns very well as DVD+R. there is a thread at cdfreaks.com regarding DVD-R media that burns just as well as DVD+R media.

[steve2713]

That's good to hear that they're getting it down now regarding some -R media. My 822 does an AWESOME job with +R discs, but has issues with some -R media, although in honesty most of it's issues has been with cheapo generic variety -R media. Fortunately I've got two NECs that burn EVERYTHING well so I can always use those burners if the Benq struggles with something, although the 822 burns some +R media even slightly better (judging by PI/PO scans).