DVB Nightmares !!!

[nick101181]

I need to re-encode my dvb mpeg2 files because none of my players can play patched dvb files at all. I converted a dvb to complaint mpeg2 using cce and I had used the demuxed files from dvd2avi for the source since i read that's suppose to keep them in sync. Well turns out everything I tried will not result in an perfectly synced dvb file. I usually encode the video and audio seperate. The demuxed mpa files usually say something lie -621 or -554 ms delay.mpa so I try to encode these files but they're still out of sync. Can anyone please help me out with this? I've had dvb mpeg2 files sitting on my harddrive since october because I can't figure this out and I would like to burn them. I'm going crazy here. I have an apex and you know an apex can play anything you throw at it but all it does if I patch and author the dvb is play but I can't use any functions. I can't ff,rw,pause,return to menu,power off, anything. can anyone help me out with a solution to this problem? I got 20 gigs worth of dvb's i need to encode to dvd to clear off the drive. thanks

[likwid8]

Well is your original file out of sync? if it isnt then try demuxing the video with Project X.... works wonders..


BTW a dvb mpeg is already DVD compatible.......just author it and burn it

[lordsmurf]

Well is your original file out of sync? if it isnt then try demuxing the video with Project X.... works wonders..


BTW a dvb mpeg is already DVD compatible.......just author it and burn it

No it's not. DVB uses a totally different MPEG structure, often totally different resolutions. You have to either patch an MPEG or fool the authoring software to accept DVB material. Sometimes you just need a authoring software that does not re-encode and does not care (DVD-Lab, I hear, but may still need some amount of workarounds).

[nick101181]

no, the original is perfectly in sync all the way thru.

[lordsmurf]

Sigh... I've split off the hijack here. Locked for obvious reasons.
To the original poster, try another encoder (TMPGENC). Good luck.

[RoopeT]

I believe this is similar to what I've experienced from reauthoring discs created with my Philips DVDR 985 standalone.

First I rip the streams with DVDDecrypter (ifo mode, stream processing on). After that I get the video steam and audio stream vtsxx_delay-yyyms.ac3, that I correct with ac3delaycorrector (freeware) -> import delay corrected streams to DVDLab.

I don't know if there's a similar software for mp2 audio. Maybe you could try encoding audio as ac3 and apply ac3delaycorrector after that?

[nick101181]

I'm currently trying to see if I can loop the tv out into my hauppauge wintv 250 pvr but it's not working out so good. I also tried using dvd2avi to get the mpa file with the delay then I used besweet with the delay dvd2avi option and it's still outta sync. I think from now on I'm gonna tell it to record but to split up in 900 meg chunks, but when I' not sure if I have to fix the ac3 like some xvids that are 2 discs and you gotta fix the break in the ac3. any ideas
?

[SatStorm]

Use TMPGenc for encoding and tooLAME as external audio encoder. If you still have problems, try virtualdub mpeg 2 and frameserve to TMPGenc.

If you still have problems, then your source has fake audio frames to keep in synch with the picture. Not much to do .... You have to seperate audio / video, re-encode the video part and mux audio with the new video.

The other thing I can imagine, is that the DVB channel you are capturing, does an audio switch now and then, from 96kb/s mono to 192kb/s stereo. I know few German channels do this (like 3sat for example). If that is the issue, you have to find where that switch took place and split the original mpeg there.
IF you use programs (like pvstrumento) to fix the "errors" you mess up the original stream, to a point that you won't be able to fix it again!

[TBoneit]

One Other thing to try is Videoredo they added added functionality to the latest Beta versions (So far only in the beta versions) for Dish user's DVB streams that were having sync problems. The Tool is the Quickstream Fix tool off of the tool menu.

Before anyone goes banannas the DVB files are extracted off of older Dish PVRs where it is stored un-encrypted on the drive, IE 7100,7200,501,508,510 models. The newer models, IE 522, 721, 921 store it encrypted and thus the Yahoo groups where I hang out won't write S/W or allow discussion of extracting from those PVRs due to the DMCA. The general Consensus is that since it isn't encrypted it isn't protected by the DMCA.

Anyway the Quickstream Fix function apparently fixes sync problems where the audio starts out in sync and drifts off by the end of the video. I seem to recall it being to the weird way that Dish does the DVB stream. I suspect it would fix your sync problem with DVB files. I forget the technicalities of why it goes out of sync tho. You will need to download the trial version, request the trial 21 day key, go to the discussion forum beta section find the link to the latest beta version. the trial version does not have the functionality to fix the sync problem it is in the beta versions though. It is a nifty little Mpeg editor, I use it to open .ts streams or DVD Vob files and save as Mpeg or edited Mpeg files. Also to resize GOPs or fix sequence header errors. Or Frame accurate Edits. I like it, I paid for it, to me it was worth it.Cheaper than Womble as I recall it too.

FWIW I was getting support even on the trial period too.

Cheers
Roger

[lordsmurf]

I would consider VideoRedo for DVB editing, avoid Womble.

[The_Doman]

The best combination which works for me to process DVB streams is first demuxing them with projectx and then editing (removing commercials) with Mpeg2Schnitt.
Really great results!

[SatStorm]

I use womble for my DVB captures for more than 4 years without any issues. On the other hand, I do know that there are some differences between the DVB transmissions we have here in Europe and the ones you have there in USA.

nick101181 I don't understand something: You have wrong lipsynch or the audio starts OK and present problems after a while?
If the lipsynch is wrong, then you simply need to delay the audio or the video to fix it. You can do this easy with virtualdub mpeg 2.
If the lipsynch starts OK and progress wrong, you have other issues, you might won't be able to fix
When you mux the original mpa audio from dvd2avi with the new video you encoded with TMPGenc, what kind of lisynch issue you have?

[lordsmurf]

I use womble for my DVB captures for more than 4 years without any issues. On the other hand, I do know that there are some differences between the DVB transmissions we have here in Europe and the ones you have there in USA.

I ruined source with Womble. I had to entirely dump that personal project. All is good, I can do it again another day. Not a huge loss.

The DISH NETWORK 544x480 files were choking on my version of Womble. I do not know why. No encoder would read them properly either, had bad interlace/fps data. Not even DVD Patcher or Restream could fix. Just DVD2AVI for encoding, and ONLY if unedited (or non-Womble edited).

Also, Womble MPEG editing tools have only existed since 2003. Watch the time there. Even DVD burners were not available DVD-R(G) in Jan 2001.

[SatStorm]

I use mpeg2vcr since June 2001, my first CVD from DVB sources!
Later they name it mpg-vcr. I searched the tools section and the comments I did about mpeg2vcr are gone.
Anyway, even like this, at the comments about mpeg-vcr, someone called "whirly" reported at September 25, 2003 that "I've been using this editor for over a year..." So, it is more than certain, even that way, that in 2002 mpeg2vcr existed.
Finally, the first tool report is at June 11, 2003 by VidGuy for version v3.14.
I remember downloading version 3.10 from vcdhelpsp.com back in 2000 with a patch to accept SVCD-like files! (if i remember correct, we use to download version 3.13 and patch it back to 3.11 because of bug, or we use to download version 3.10 that didn't care for framesizes...)
All this is history, but you are probably new in this scene to know all this background...
Anyway, the bottom line is that you are wrong on this. mpeg2vcr existed long before 2003!

[SatStorm]

And here in case my word don't count (yes LS, you pissed me off on this!)

http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/downloads/mpeg2vcr.html


Program : MPEG2VCR
Version : 3.11
OS : Windows 9x/NT
Date : 7 April 2000

[lordsmurf]

Ah, proven wrong, I have been!

I also wasn't ONLY talking about MPEG2VCR, but it was one of them. MPEG Video Wizard is no good either, not on the DISH files.

[SatStorm]

mpeg video wizard is still buggy, yeah! Promising but buggy. I have issues when I try to use it myself (loss of lipsynch)

Mpeg-vcr is a perfect mpeg 2 editor for DVB/s/c/t sources! Just remember to split the file when and if a channel switch from mono to stereo! And never use pvstrumento or other tools to fix "problems" from DVB sources! Those programs exist to extract DVB files from DVB PVRs (especially Topfield ones...). For extracted to HD files (and grabbed files from skystar 2 - like PCI DVB cards), using such programs is a bad idea!

[kisrum]

I think maybe I've ruined some sources with Mpeg Video Wizard as well. Or at least mpegs which TMPGenc DVD Author used to be able to handle, it no longer can, after being cut with MPVW. These were all captured files from TV.

Strangely, the one relatively complex cut/paste/transition/title/music soundtrack/add slideshow at end/ I did with MPVW, from home video DV files, came out fine and authored perfectly in DVD Author. Probably should have done it all in AVI format, but just got lucky.

Mpeg video wizard claims to have tools which will fix the GOP, but they don't work either. I've haven't lost av sync yet, but will keep trying.

[lordsmurf]

Don't get me wrong... I use Womble products daily. But the DVB was a no-go. DVD recorders, ATI captures, converted files (from an encoder) ... all 100% fine. Just the DVB (DISH). Yuck, yuck. Ruined my week when it happened.

MPEG Video Wizard will actually fix corrupted Panasonic DVD recorder files. For that alone I kept it. So, so useful.

[nick101181]

Well I've tried every tmpgenc/ virtualdub frameserving I could do. I did find out though that if I tell it to record but to seperate in 900 meg chunks that I can run it thru mpeg2vcr and it fixes each clip and remains in sync, but when I go to join I get this funky pixelation for a few seconds when it plays where the break originally was. @Satstorm : The audio is perfectly in sync, it goes out of sync when I try to encode the dvb to half d1 or anything for that matter. I've tried using programs to delay the audio using the value that dvd2avi tells me which is -547ms. I've tried converting the mpa to wav using that delay but after it was still out of sync. I've tried to tell tmpgenc to delay it this much, but still out of sync. People have told me that projectx can fix gop errors and retain sync but when I demuxed my file the gop hadn't changed. The dvb streams I'm using are from dishnetwork and they have a frame size of 544x480 and an mp2 audio of 192kbps. Some channels like hbo have ac3, but not too many of the ppv channels do. I'm not sure if they change the bitrate in the middle like you say Satstorm, they always report as being 192 kbps. So far my idea of splitting and correcting the gop with a program has worked except for the few frames of pixelation when it plays where joined. If I could fix it from doing that I would pretty much have it made. For those that use projectx, what settings or options do I apply to fix the gop ?

[lordsmurf]

The report is the file header ONLY. I have also experienced files where the bitrate, fps, interlace method, audio kHz ... etc ... have changed midstream. We were obviously NEVER INTENDED to edit these files, so I am a firm believer in CAPTURING ONLY these days, and not messing with satellite/tivo/dvr files, if it can be helped. Euro DVB may be more cooperative, or so I hear, but NA sure isn't.

[nick101181]

I mean I would like to just ignore the gop length error in tda, but if I do It's not stable on my dvd player. However dvb streams with a correct gop can be played fine as a daisy in my dvd player. I was experimenting with the newest version of mytheatre and recording diff clips off the same channel using diff graphs and one had a correct gop length. There is an option in MT that says optimize for dvd, but it does not correct the gop length at all. I recorded a whole 3 hour dvb stream in november with mytheatre and it had a correct gop length. I asked a few people and one guy said "oh that depends on what gop the provider broadcasts." Well turns out it was a fluke or something cause I have not been able to reproduce those results except for one time recently. While recording clips with different graphs on the same channel I had one that had a correct gop, and the others did not. This leads me to believe that if you record at a certain b,p,or I frame during the DishNet stream that it will record it with a correct gop length. I could be wrong but that's what I'm thinking.

[SatStorm]

You are using a total different hardware than mine, that's for sure...

What I guess, is that your DVB source channels change from stereo to mono on every commercial

There is no way to fix this, I know first hand! The only way I know, is to bypass this problem with mpeg-vcr. And in a very specific way:
You load your mpeg 2 file on mpeg2vcr and you mark each part you wish to keep. You don't save that direct to the disc: You always COPY it to the memory (an icon appears in the left). When finished, you minimize your source (don't close it) and you drug and drop from the icons at the left those portions and then you save to HD. You won't join them now, just save them.
Later, and if you wish to join all those parts on one mpeg 2 file, you can drug and drop them alltogether. And use "blend" to avoid pixeliration between the parts

I believe you all use that fancy no good MPEG Video Wizard and not the real thing mpeg-vcr. Bad choice: Do your stuff only with mpeg-vcr and only mpeg-vcr.

[nick101181]

Well what I usually record are ppv movies/events. So this is a 3 hour event with no commercials in it. So I dunno how it can ever be fixed? The dvb-s card I'm using is the twinhan 1020a Vision Plus. I believe over there in Europe you use dvb-t, correct..,Satstorm ? It seems like on mpeg2vcr's behalf that it can't fix gops on large file sizes. It works very well and remains in sync for files under 1 gig or so. Also everyone and their Momma is telling meto use videoredo and the quickstream fix option. I do this but this is outta sync too. Tbone tells me that there is a yahoo group that uses this to fix their DishNet stream taken from the Dishnet Pvr's. Maybe I'm using some wrong settings or something. Does anyone who uses videredo with dvb stream that are very large 4 gig plus , have ever gotten it to fix the gops and remain in sync? If so what settings should I use ?

[TBoneit]

So join the Yahoo group called dishrip and read the messages, can't hurt.

2nd I'd run the quickstream fix without touching the gop size first

Then work on the GOP size issue.

Unchanged they play fine on my Sony's and Apex's And I keep reading that Sony's are picky.

Remeber You need to use the Beta on Dish Streams.
Dan at Videoredo analyzed the Dish streams and as LordSmurf says it appears the sync problem is related to changing of interlaced or not midstream etc. and Quickstream was reworked in the betas to fix those exact problems.

FWIW WLIW,NY seems to have its GOPS at DVD Standard and 544 by 480. I suspect that the locals are delegated to the older equipment that ran one size GOP etc. and didn't do all the tricks the mainstream channels do to squeeze every last bit of bandwidth.

Cheers

[nick101181]

I'll join the group and read later. I have an older apex model 660a. Right now I'm in the middle of doing the 80mm xbox replacement fan mod, but I'm running into problems. Looks like the 80mm I bought is 34db so it has to be louder than the stock xbox fan. When I'm finished I'll report back here. Thanks

[nick101181]

Well upon futher inspection it looks like the garbled up frames are done by Mytheatre when it splits the file. I noticed this when loading each clip to try to join them. There is an option for overlapping the audio and the defualt is 5000ms but the creator of MT told me to set it to 0 since I want to have it in sync.

[SatStorm]

In Europe we use DVB /S(atellite) / T(errestrial) / C(able).
In USA you use DVB /S(atellite) but the multiplexing is different (we use statistical multiplexing, you don't. The reason is simply: Statistical multiplexing is a French technology adapted by the DVB forum except USA (of course...)

[TBoneit]

FWIW Dish Network does Statistical multiplexing of each group of channels on a transponder. Thus the variable bitrate for a video. They also seem to set it to show 15Mb as a bitrate. Don't know why they do that. It usually runs around 1Gb per hour with some higher and some lower. Local channels run lower Standard channels run around the 1Gig mark and Premiums & PPVs run higher.

From curiousity how is this different than they Stat Mux in Europe?

Cheers

[nick101181]

I went to yahoo and searched for dishrip and it said the group couldn't be found. Could I get a direct link ?