Non-Compliant SVCD in MMC 7.5

[antisense]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone else was getting non compliant SVCD in MMC 7.5. I think that I read somewhere that someone was getting compliant SVCDs, and I was wondering exactly how. Oh yeah, stinky, your registry program is da bomb!

[antisense]

Okay, answering my own question here. If I set the VBR bitrate at 2.6, and 480x480 then all I have to do to make it compliant is to demux it in TMPGenc and the Mux it in TMPGenc and everything is cool with Nero. My question is, is there any other way to make the resulting files compliant instantly without any editing, because i am worried that occasionally the re-mux will make the audio/video out of sync. I did a test burn by recording part of The Skulls and everything was fine, but for the future...? Hope someone responds.

[Stinky]

yes you can make compliant SVCD's via MMC 7.5 that you don't have to do any other work to.

I'm gathering up all the info and will add them as pre-sets very soon.

thanks for the nice words on my tool - I've gotten some really great feedback/suggestions just today that is going to make it even more helpful

[RFontenot]

MMC 7.1 did not encode the SDE value properly for 480x480 captures. So even after remuxing with TMPGEnc, these captures would not display properly on Pioneer players. The fix was to change the SDE value using the fix12c tool, then remux with TMPGEnc.

BTW, fix12c was originally intended to fix a SDE problem with TMPGEnc 12c. That problem was fixed in later versions, but the same problem exists in MMC 7.1 as well.

Does MMC 7.5 fix the SDE problem too?

RF

[homerpez]

I hate to be a wet blanket... again... but...

1) Nobody should be multiplexing with TMPGEnc unless you have to. Use bbMPEG at all costs.

2) Are any of you happy with the results of a "direct" SVCD capture with MMC? I know I try capturing 480x480 with MMC, full motion search, etc. and I can't get good result with any bitrate setting under 5MB/sec! How does it even look once it gets to a TV?

...also something I wanted to know...

What does it take to make a "NON-COMPLIANT" SVCD? I'm told it's actually tough to do! The way I understand it, your movie can be encoded with VBR encoding, any bitrate (under 2520), and audio can be any bitrate your player can handle (224k, 128k, whatever)... So the only way you can make a non-compliant SVCD is to use a weird resolution, or go above 2520 bitrate... do I understand that right?

[RFontenot]

Naw, you're not being a wet blanket.

The quality of real-time or "direct" VCD or SVCD capture with my ATI AIW Radeon is so-so. It's good enough for throwaway programming, or as a backup to my VCR.

When I want something for burning to a CD, either VCD or SVCD, I setup MMC to do I-Frame only at 15Mbps CBR. Then I reencode using TMPGEnc set at High Quality. Takes a lot longer, but the quality is superb!

NTSC-SVCD resolution is defined as 480x480, with a MAXIMUM bitrate of 2.6Mbps. I believe that includes audio as well as video. so if your audio is 224Kbps, your video should be 2.6Mbps-224Kbps. My Pioneer DVD player doesn't like SVCD's which exceed 2.6Mbps total, but other brands may not be as picky.

I've never used bbmpeg, but I've heard good stuff about it. I may have to try it someday.

RF

[antisense]

Okay, I would use bbmpeg, but I have no idea how to! There is no real good guide like there is for tmpgenc, and the website (for me at least) for bbmpeg is somewhat confusing. As for the SVCD files not being compliant, just buy yourself an ati all-in-wonder, record at 480x480 2.6mbps VBR and be amazed at the non-compliancy according to Nero. Now, I can turn off compliancy in Nero and burn the svcds, and they will play on my pioneer dv-333, but I would like to produce COMPLIANT Svcds, so that they would work on any dvd player that can play COMPLIANT svcds.

[RFontenot]

To make a complaint SVCD with an ATI AIW do the following:

Create a MPEG-2 capture profile using VBR at 2.4Mbps. Set the resolution to 480x480. The audio bitrate is fixed a 224Kbps at 44.1KHz.

Capture your video.

Obtain the fix12c utility and set horizontal and vertical SDE values in your capture file to 480. The values created by the ATI encoder are wrong. If you skip this step you will get distorted video on playback.

The video stream is not SVCD complaint, to make an SVCD complaint stream, use the Merge/Cut function in TMPGEnc's MPEG Tools. You aren't going to merge or cut anything, just reencode the video stream for SVCD. Do this by adding your corrected capture file to the list, set the Type to MPEG-2 Super VideoCD (VBR), provide a name for your output file (be sure you have disk space for this) and select Run.

Your output file will now be fully SVCD compliant. Burn it to a CD with Nero. It should play in most DVD players that support SVCD.

RF

[tjdmobile]

Yep. I get 'compliant' SVCD's directly out of MMC 7.5, and they encode just fine via Ulead's DVD burning software. For the most part, I am satisfied with the quality I get using this method. I do have to capture above spec however to get good results. I am actually pushing 2.99 MBPS to get good quality. By 'Good' I mean I spend a little more time enjoying the subject-matter, less time X?!@# at the artifacts I will always have to get.

Bottom line for me is this. If I am recording something that I will NOT have access to ever again, I capture in 24 bit with Huffy YUV, then encode with TMPenc (?), then burn it. For everything else (including the High-8's) I create SVCD's on the fly with MMC7.5. After all, if I take care of my original media (tapes), they will last longer than the CD's I create anyhow (many 8mm from 1990 still look perfect). I hope that MMC 8.0 has a better Mpeg encoder (I am probably stretching here).

Stinky,

I am really looking forward to seeing how your tool will help all of us AIW users get more out of our encodes! Thanks man!

TJD

[Stinky]

tjdmobile,

I need to email you - or please email me - I want to use your SVCD experience to create a pre-set - you don't have an email in your VCDHelp.com profile

I'm getting ready to work some more on the tool - my house is *less* full of relatives now!

[tjdmobile]

You got it...Check yer mail...

[antisense]

Hey, RFontenot, what is this 'fix12c utility' that you mention. I would love to have this program because your way of making compliant files sounds pretty easy, but I don't know what this utility is. Also, is it possible to capture at 2.6 mbps instead of 2.4, and still have the svcd be compliant? (i know about the whole audio bitrate plus video bitrate can't be larger than 2.6, but I can produce compliant files (according to nero) that have a vid bitrate of 2.6)Oh yes, and stinky, hope you can deliver on something that none of the software dudes at ati can't-fully compatible svcds, no more editing required. Well, Happy Holidays! Oh yeah, homerpez, when I mux with TMPGenc, nothing really bad happens-i.e. the audio and video don't go out of sync.

[wired2000]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-22 14:12:54, Stinky wrote:
yes you can make compliant SVCD's via MMC 7.5 that you don't have to do any other work to.

I'm gathering up all the info and will add them as pre-sets very soon.

thanks for the nice words on my tool - I've gotten some really great feedback/suggestions just today that is going to make it even more helpful

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

[wired2000]

Eagerly waiting your "pre-set" info. I was able to create a compliant SVCD via Nero's svcd codec plug-in and it played on my APEX 660, but the pic was muddy after all that encoding and re-encoding. A direct custom pre-set for my AT 128 PRO card would be the answer!

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-22 14:12:54, Stinky wrote:
yes you can make compliant SVCD's via MMC 7.5 that you don't have to do any other work to.

I'm gathering up all the info and will add them as pre-sets very soon.

thanks for the nice words on my tool - I've gotten some really great feedback/suggestions just today that is going to make it even more helpful

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

[antisense]

Okay, I have found the fix12c utility, but when I use it, the SDE value at the end of the "fixing" is not 480, it can be anywhere from 434 to 1138 (at least so far). So, plainly put, what the hell is going on!? It seems that the program is changing the value, but I can't really tell because the ati file player plays the file as if nothing had been done to it (i.e., the file player plays it normally). Maybe in mmc 7.5, the SDE values are correct?? But according to Nero,they aren't. This is very confusing, but maybe something else is going on. Here is the rest: after using fix12c, I tried to burn the file using nero, now it said that it was not compliant, so I took the next step said by RFontenot, and then merge and cut the file, although not really merging anything, and that file is SVCD compliant according to Nero. Nero even thinks the resolution is 480x480 (what it should be) So is everything happy? Nero also thinks that my original way of demuxing and muxing is also compliant, so is this 2 routes to the same ball game? Okay, so main problem is this: I do not think that I am getting the correct resolution output from this fix12c utility, any help?

[RFontenot]

The fix12c utility isn't necessary for making an SVCD compliant file, however, using the merge/cut utility is necessary since that is what restructures your 480x480 @ 2.4Mbps VBR MPEG-2 video stream into an SVCD video stream.

I'm not an expert on the SDE field, but the guy who wrote the utility has a website with some info:

http://www.geocities.com/eby_vdo/

Apparently, some MPEG-2 decoders reference the SDE fields while others do not. An ATI created SVCD file plays fine when using the ATI File Player, but my Pioneer DVD player will not correctly display the output at 480x480 unless I run the file through the fix12c utility.

I use the command line version:

fix12c filename.mpg -h 480 -v 480

Your players may not reference the SDE fields, and so you won't see any difference if they don't, but if you ever play the disk on a player that does, the video will be distorted.

RF

[patrickm]

you're right, most dvd players don't, mostly just pioneer. but for those of us that do have them, the 30 seconds that fix12c takes is well worth it. RF-the merge/cut does the mux/demux to SVCD? i wasn't aware of that before- thanks for the tip- so now i can stop wasting time with that step...

also, to everyone doing MMC semi-realtime SVCD, i've found that using the CBR 2300 (or around that) does a much nicer job than when i was using VBR, and from looking at it with bitrate viewer, it varies between 1700-2600 kbps. i had some playback sync problems on the pioneer 343 when i did VBR 2400-2600 range because it would spike over 3000 and the player would choke (it's barely noticeable, but after about 10 times you can notice that the sync is drifting - and if you fast forward the parts that spike, sync stays)