Edit / Encode or Encode / Edit Questions

[Tolwyn]

Can't believe I'm still in the newbie forum. I try and try, but hopefully by the end of this year, I'll make it out of here.

I just bought TMPGenc 3.x and the DVD Authoring Program.
First of all... why are making menus so limiting? How are REAL menus made like what we see in store-purchased DVDs? Anyways... to my issue:

So...

I have DV clips captured by a Canopus ADVC-1000 device (Hi8 Source).

Now I have AVI clips. Do I encode these FIRST and THEN edit with Nero Vision Express, Ulead Video Studio SE, or ... ???

If I'm editing (wipes, fades, titles) in MPEG2, will it RE-ENCODE? I don't WANT it to re-encode, of course... I'm just confused. The manuals and all the help that come with these applications, et al aren't helpful with regards to these matters.

If I do the editing first, I can't get the resulting video ("project") out to the encoder without compressing it twice; or in Nero's case, using its own MPEG2 encoder (seems to be single pass crap), which seems awful. If I try to export the video, it's uncompressed AVI, and that won't work at all. TOO BIG. As a matter of fact, Nero won't let me compress the video at all. I get the choice of MPEG1, MPEG2, and DV (uncompressed) or AVI (uncompressed).

So, what are the steps?

Is it an editor problem that won't frame serve to an encoder?

DVD authoring / video is so convoluted, there's a point where you have too much information and it's impossible to disseminate what needs to be done in the most simplest terms.

[bunyip]

I would say that that you have all the tools you need.

The sequence can be ..
1. Encode the AVI first, using TMPGenc3.
2. Then use Ulead Video Studio to add your effects to the encoded MPG file (UVS will only encode the parts that you change and leave the rest alone, providing you have 'SmartRendering' turned on). You can also cutout any unwanted bits at this stage.
3. Then use TMPGenc DVD Author to do the authoring, write the DVD Authored files to Hard Disk - and test it with a software DVD player (e.g PowerDVD).
4. Then use TMPGenc DVD to burn the authored files to DVD.

(If you want to apply remedial filters to the AVI file (such as de-noise, de-ghost etc.) you can expand the first step to use VirtualDub or AviSynth to 'Frameserve' the AVI to TMPGenc3 with filtering, or you can use some of the internal filters in TMPGenc).

But if you don't need to clean-up the source then keep it simple and just follow steps 1-4.

[Richard_G]

I have no wish to start an argument, but I would disagree with bunyip. Do not encode to mpeg before doing your editing. A DV avi file contains every frame, an mpeg only has a full frame every I frame. Consequently, any fades done on an mpeg will look jerky but the same fade applied to an avi will be smooth. Straight cuts will be OK but anything that is progressive won't be good.

Do all the editing in Video Studio with the files as DV avi and save the finished project as DV avi. If you have Smartrender turned on, only the bits you have changed will be encoded. Agreed the file sizes will be big, but if they are too big you'll just have to buy a bigger hard drive! Then and only then, should you encode to mpeg.

Once you have mpeg files you can use your authoring software to create menus and turn the mpeg files into vob, bup and ifo files.

[bunyip]

No argument - what you say is valid, it will be up to Tolwyn to decide if there is a sufficent visual difference in the transitions and if dealing with multiple large files is a problem. :P

[bugster]

Edit 1st, encode only when fully satisfied with end product.

[jimmalenko]

I'll complete the trifecta.

I don't add transitions or anything like that to any of my stuff, but IMO general editing (commercials, top n tails, etc etc) in AVI is easier and seems to cause much less troubles regarding A/V synch than MPEG editing

[Tolwyn]

Thanks everyone.
Smart rendering. Ok. I needed to understand what that was. Makes sense to me.

Is there a similar process to use with Nero Vision... or, because it can't save out to DV again (at least with any kind of compression), that won't work?

HD space isn't a problem. I have 160GB. The problem is the Nero is trying or will only write UNCOMPRESSED AVI... and that's like 80GB per 15 minutes. Uh...

[bugster]

Edit in Ulead Video Studio SE, which you have, then save out from that either as mpeg-2 (does it encode to mpeg-2, I don't use that package) or DVd-Avi (which it should do). If you save as DV-avi, encode to mpeg-2 with something like TmpGenc. Then use the mpeg-2 files to author and burn a DVd in Nero. I would not reccomend Nero as an encoder, it is far from the best quality.

[Tolwyn]

I agree totally on Nero's encoder.
I got Sony Vegas. Hopefully it frameservs.

[trock]

I got Sony Vegas. Hopefully it frameservs.

It frameserves beautifully with the debugmode frameserver.

[Tolwyn]

Excellent.