Wal-Mart Pitches DVD Burning Deal to Studios

[beric3236]

Follow this link

http://www.videostoremag.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?sec_id=2&article_ID=6932

It sounds good on paper, but it may not fly. The MPAA has to get their loot, and forbid the pirates out there.

[lordsmurf]

Stung by the worsening shelf-space crisis, Wal-Mart wants to let customers order movies not carried in its regular stock through its Web site and then go the nearest retail location to pick up a burned DVD copy.

The giant discount chain has been floating the concept around Hollywood in recent weeks, reliable inside sources said. “They hit everybody in the industry,” said one studio insider.

The response from the studios has been mixed, and centers around copy protection.

“Can you physically do it in a way that protects everyone’s interest?” asked one high-ranking Hollywood executive. “Maybe, maybe not. And that’s a great concern.”

“I think the ability to provide adequate copy protection is our main concern,” said another. “That is everybody’s primary concern at the moment, and they have not yet proven their ability to provide it.”

“No way the studios will let this happen,” said another senior executive. “There are just too many security issues.”

A spokeswoman for Wal-Mart sent Video Store Magazine a statement that neither confirmed nor denied the reports from studios, and request for clarification to the statement was unreturned by press time.

“We're always open to new ideas on anything that might be of interest to our customers, but don’t currently have anything available regarding the downloading of movies in our stores,” said the spokeswoman by e-mail in response to queries from Video Store Magazine. “If this is something that we thought our customers would want in the future, we'd certainly look into it.”

[beric3236]

Thanks Lordsmurf, I didn't know if I could do that or not. Copyrights and all

[EvilWizardGlick]

So Walmart can burn a copy but not order a copy through their distributors?
This sounds really strange, unless Walmart wants to skip the distributor altogether and get their foot in the door to burn ALL movies.
Saving them a bundle on overstock. It would be burn on demand.
But what about inserts and such?


As to copyright, one of the political websites will only allow four paragraphs of copyrighted material. They claim that is the limit.

[sammie]

Actually, if you think about it it's a delivery system that makes a lot of sense for buying movies. It cuts out more of the middle man, removes a lot of dead stock, one presumes the movie would come in a pretty barebones packaging reduing that cost and be able to offer an HUGE catalog of titles. IF!!!!!!!! the studios got together with WalMart and/or others and allowed a reasonable price. This actually has the potential to be a very effective anti-piracy move for non-top release movies. And GASP it could be an effective move by actually offering a desireable competitive product.

Now, I can't see studios allowing or WalMart even wanting to do this with top releases. They know they can get their $20 a pop for those.

At anyrate, based on what the story says. Studios won't allow it, and even if they did they would probably want to try and keep the price the same and just pocket all the savings as a bigger profit. Too bad really, I could see this idea being a real winner.

[sammie]

@EvilWizardGlick If they are smart they wouldn't worry about inserts. Put it in a nice cardboard or plastic sleeve with a sticky label giving the title, essential details and bit of a blurb about the movie. Maybe include jacket art as a .jpg or inserts as a PDF file on the disk so you could print them out if you wanted to.

Damn! the more I think about it this could be a great idea. Sign on the internet just like NetFlix. Pick your movies and select a local WalMart. A few hours later you swing by and pick up your movie.

[yoda313]

Hello,

Nintendo had a similar deal like this for the 8bit system in Japan if I remember right. I believe they let you get a cartridge and format it with the game you wanted at the store. (not 100% sure which system it was but it was an early one). This sounds pretty similar.

Kevin

[Darth Paris]

S I'm going to go buy a movie that is just a burnt copy? WTF? I would much rather buy it off the site and wait for it to ship.

[yoda313]

S I'm going to go buy a movie that is just a burnt copy? WTF? I would much rather buy it off the site and wait for it to ship.

Hello,

Yeah and what if your player doesn't like the brand they use????? Or if it can't play +r?????

I hope they have a good return policy for it!

Also, would this be single layer or dual layer??? If it's dual layer will your player read it????

And just think they'll have stripped the copy protection for you! Just pop it in and do a simple disc copy! (for legit backup purposes only of course ).

Kevin

[EvilWizardGlick]

This actually has the potential to be a very effective anti-piracy move for non-top release movies. And GASP it could be an effective move by actually offering a desireable competitive product.

Of course if big media stopped their price fixing practices that would deter piracy as well.

This is what REALLY may deter piracy (From various readings file sharing is actually beneficial to big media, CD sales were up due to file sharing, even with the price fixing by media companies. I imagine the same holds true with movies, people will always want a better copy to keep at home so they buy one.)
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/start.html?pg=7?tw=wn_tophead_5
"IPTV is not to be confused with television over the Internet. On the public Net, packets get delayed or lost entirely - that's why Web video is so jerky and lo-res. But private networks like Comcast's are engineered, obviously, for reliable video delivery - which means IPTV will look at least as good as TV coming from digital cable or satellite.

It will be accompanied by another, equally critical change. Instead of broadcasting every channel continuously, service providers plan to transmit them only to subscribers who request them. In effect, every channel will be streamed on demand. This will free up huge amounts of bandwidth for hi-def TV and high-speed broadband. Add IP and you get interactive services like caller ID on your TV. And the system will be able to track viewing habits as effectively as Amazon tracks its customers, so ads will be targeted with scary precision. Put it all together and you've got television that's as intensely personalized as 20th-century broadcasting was generic. "

[spiderman2k1]

CompUSA was going to this with MAC software where you look up the software you want and COMPUSA would burn the disc for you.

[sammie]

@DarthParis If that's what you want, then go ahead. This system shouldn't be aimed at you, and if they try and charge $17 a copy obviously everyone will feel the same way as you do. This has to be a cost effective system that allows folks to get a good copy of a movie that is going to be hard to find at local retail stores. Pulling numbers out of the air, it needs to cost say like $10 preferably less. Studios need to realize that this is a way to sell DVDs of movies that otherwise will just be sitting in their libraries NOT generating any revenue stream.

The DL - +R - -R question is somewhat bigger. SL -R can get the compatibility well up into the 90+% level. I'd presume they would have to be sure and let folks know there would be compatibility problems. Right now I'd also assume they wouldn't be doing DL disks so it begs the question of extras as well. I assume they would make WalMart use some sort of master file and duping machine that included CSS.

On the plus side, they studios could actually have a renewable ad income on DVDs. They could contiually update the trailers etc. Now I know most of us are already ticked by forced ads and trailers, but they are reality and might be the subsidy income studios would want to do something like this.

[sammie]

Of course if big media stopped their price fixing practices that would deter piracy as well.

Unfortunately, that's what will ultimately kill this idea. Studios will insist on charging their regular prices for these disks, and as others have pointed out, Why would you by a burned, SL plain disk in a cardboard sleeve for full price? Too bad really, this is a business model that sounds like it could work and would make a much more effective dent in the pirate and maybe even sharing market than silly lawsuits.

[Cornucopia]

There is no such thing as a duping machine that includes CSS. If DVD Forum, et al don't budge then there never will either.

With the current climate, this idea is dead in the water.

Scott

[EvilWizardGlick]

CompUSA was going to this with MAC software where you look up the software you want and COMPUSA would burn the disc for you.

Whatever happened to the idea of centralized software? A few years ago the idea was that software would not be on the home pc but on a central server accessed through the internet. I think Wordperfect was one of the programs spoken of.
The more things change the more they stay the same.

[EvilWizardGlick]

Of course if big media stopped their price fixing practices that would deter piracy as well.

Unfortunately, that's what will ultimately kill this idea. Studios will insist on charging their regular prices for these disks, and as others have pointed out, Why would you by a burned, SL plain disk in a cardboard sleeve for full price? Too bad really, this is a business model that sounds like it could work and would make a much more effective dent in the pirate and maybe even sharing market than silly lawsuits.

No it would not make a dent in the filesharing community. It would offer the majority of home users the chance to find hard to find films from places other than the net. I can see a big boom in Kung Fu flicks, horror, and porn.
File sharers actually do buy the films or cd's when they can find them. But downloading a movie and watching it also allows for you to decide if you really want to spend the money on the ever increasing dreck hollywood puts out.
I would say the biggest section of the file sharing community are those looking for obscure material. Or material they can't find in their own countries.
I tend to buy a lot of asian film and anime. I will never see these titles at Walmart, Blockbuster, or even Amazon. I get frustrated when I order a title claimed to be instock, and it isn't or there is some type of holdup.
File sharing offers on demand product within a reasonable time ( usually).
When I first started ordering Asian film, from Asia, I could buy hit movies for $5 usd to $9 usd. Hit US films were going for $25usd! There was no difference in the quality of the product I was buying, and they were from media companies.
Someone was making a massive profit in the Us, and a smaller on in Asia.
Then I read about the pricefixing lawsuit for cd's, and I knew what was happening.
And you have to admit that most of what comes from Hollywood these days is either pure shit, or recycled older films that are far worse than the originals.
Why pay $20 usd for that crap, and you can not return it after you watch it.

[cal_tony]

A month or so ago I mentioned on the thread re: netflix and it's competitors that the Netflix paradigm of "ship to and ship back" was very ineffective as a business model and that all of the companies involved would be looking for some ways to change the model. "Ship out only" would be a start. The studios want to get their product out and get paid. The Rental sources like supplying the movies but don't like keeping massive inventories or paying the post office for out and back. Sooner or later a new technique will emerge that satisfies the above concerns. This may not be it, but more will follow.

[MrMoody]

1. Someone at Wal-mart needs to stop smoking crack because the MPAA are never going to allow this.

2. I wouldn't pay more than $4 a piece for these. You know they will be stripped down, and DVDRs aren't as durable as pressed DVDs. At 4 bucks, I might buy a few obscure ones as others have mentioned.

But in any case, it's just a (crack) pipe dream 'cause it ain't gonna happen.

[themichael]

This sounds very much like a business model I heard about years ago. Set up a kiosk and let people make their own compilation CDs. Simple label, jewel case with track list, and out pops your CD in 20 mins. The model also was very specific about PAYING mechanical reproduction royalties. The studios killed this as fast as anything.

Back then the model never would of worked. Cost for HD storage, digitizing the music, not everybody could play CD-R, and the slow burning speed. Today however......

Remember the old Qwest commercial about the jukebox that have every song ever recorded??

[sammie]

The issue with centralized software is that programs have gotten huge and the constantly access an entire array of ancillary .DLLs (in windows) and other program bits. Almost no programs are entirely memory resident. The bandwidth isn't there yet to allow programs to download on demand all the pieces they need. You are seeing some vestiges of this in online authentication and update schemes. For the nonce though centralized software is dead. Download and burn is very much alive though. I bet half the software I've purchased recently I bought, downloaded, unzipped then burnt to a disk.

@Cornucopia I agree, this probably won't fly because it would force studios out of the current comfortable business model. But actually, by having a retailer burn the disks they get around one of the issues stopping downloadable movies (besides the size :P ). That is forcing DRM of some sort. It would be easy to require a company like WalMart to install specialized equiment and guarantee they were using properly encoded files for burning. What would they make a typical Joe do? Electroniclly sign a EULA promising to add the encoding before he burned the files? (Uh sure............I'll do that )

Fact is the studios want bullet proof DRM before doing anything to change their business model. There isn't any such thing these days and may not ever really be. What they are missing is that this would allow them to make a good profit on stuff they are currently making little or no money on. They prevent piracy by offering a "better" product at a price that makes it not worth the average Joe's time. It will never wipe out the hardcore ripper or the big organized groups (but they are going after current hits anyway). It gives the guy doing the petty thieving (who probably feels bad about it) a way to get what he wants legally at a fair price.

[sammie]

1. Someone at Wal-mart needs to stop smoking crack because the MPAA are never going to allow this.

2. I wouldn't pay more than $4 a piece for these. You know they will be stripped down, and DVDRs aren't as durable as pressed DVDs. At 4 bucks, I might buy a few obscure ones as others have mentioned.

But in any case, it's just a (crack) pipe dream 'cause it ain't gonna happen.

1. Unfortunately right.

2a. My sweet spot would be around $7 or $8, but yeah they have to be only a few bucks more than do it yourself.

2b. Granted on the durability. Actually, my evil mind could see a marketing advantage to this though. Put some sort of barcode on the disk or package or just keep records. You leave it out in the sun or your kids play hocky with it, no problem. Just bring the original back in and we burn you a new one for a couple of bucks....... Suddenly this format has a huge advantage over the old traditional model and actually significantly reduces the fair use back-up argument.

Sigh, more and more convincing myself to wish you weren't right on #1.

[sammie]

@EvilWizardGlick Yeah, that's why I said maybe a dent in the filesharing. It would capture a chunk of the obscure, not available stuff. Allowing you to get things you couldn't otherwise buy much of anywhere. It won't capture the first run (pre first run :P ) stuff, but they shouldn't be planning on offering that anyway. This just let's them free up shelf space and reduce inventory overhead by only stocking top 20 (50, 100) movies.

[overclockxp]

There was talk about doing something similar many many years ago with Blockbuster and the music industry. You would go to Blockbuster and request which songs you want, one from Shania Twain, one from Limp Biskit, etc, and burn your own mix right there in the store. Obviously it didn't go anywhere and Napster filled the role. I really don't feel too sorry for the music industry because they didn't respond to market conditions. I am also losing compassion for the MPAA too.


PS. I don't really like Shania Twain's music, just listen to a song that comes on the radio by her because she is so hot.

[adam]

I doubt the film industry has any interest in this kind of market. For Walmart, I really don't see these dvdr movies as being a real product, but rather a tactic to get people into the stores. That is what the superstore market is all about. People got to buy groceries anyway, if you can get them into the store to pick up their $1 crap movie then they will go ahead and pick up their food while they are there and, oooh that's a nice t-shirt, add that to my bill.

I'm sure Walmart would pay the studios a premium just to have the right to sell these disks at a loss, but I just don't think it'd be that profitable for anybody but Walmart, and it'd just be one more loose end for the movie industry to protect.

[sammie]

@ Adam Actually, WalMart is starting to do a big business in marketing 1 hour prints from digital cams this way. You upload and order at home, then just stop by and pick up your pictures in an hour or so. I live in a little rural city. Hardly a hotbed of high tech junkies, yet there is always a line 2 to 3 deep to pick up pictures ordered this way and I'm talking 10:30 am weekdays (no idea why they don't put the digital pics in the bin with all the others). I don't think custom burn DVDs are intended as an impulse or add purchase item. My guess is that it would probably take several hours to have the disc ready for you, which would preclude that type of sale altogether. I think it's to eliminate those big re-coup loss bins in the electronics section and to free up about 2 and 1/2 aisles worth of display space. Each of those would mean a lot more to WalMart than an occasional couple of buck up-sell.

Unfortunately, you are right on as far as the film industry goes. It's just that the more I think about it, the more it becomes obvious that they shouldn't worry in the least. Here's why:

1) The system would be for low volume movies by definition. The studios are making little or nothing on these right now anyway.
2) Ignoring current hit movies (which wouldn't be marketed this way) it would address a lot of the "borrow and burn" pirates who actually have few other legitimate choices in obtaining a permanent copy of a classic movie other than a VHS off TCM. If the studios resist the temptation to price gouge, they would shut down an entire pirate segmant by making personal pirating not worth the time and money.
3) It would allow studios a steady new advertising market with built in market targeting. They just add new lead in programs/ads and change it every few weeks.
4) Other on demand movie systems would require a new DRM scheme, this one wouldn't and would be easier to police.


Why it won't happen: 1) Movie execs seem to be among the most reactionary groups of business folks on the face of the planet and they are in love with their current profitable price fixed business model. 2) They want a new DRM since CSS has been compromised. They are mostly excited about HD because the format change will allow them to implement a new scheme which they hope will be unbreakable. 3) The only version of "on demand" video they can imagine is one where they get to charge you everytime you watch. No matter how profitable it's been for them they are still looking for a way to stuff the VHS genie back in its bottle. 4) Like you said, they see anyone with the capability of making a copy as a threat they have to keep a lid on, even if it is making them money.

[glockjs]

yeah because copy protection is doin soooo much for them as it is

[jarvizo]

This is where Wal-Mart will go to the studios & say "well since you're already giving us access to your films to burn & sell to our customers we think we will also edit them in any way we see fit for our customers.
If some actor somewhere offends someone they can then be edited out of the wal-mart version of the film.

[sammie]

This is where Wal-Mart will go to the studios & say "well since you're already giving us access to your films to burn & sell to our customers we think we will also edit them in any way we see fit for our customers.
If some actor somewhere offends someone they can then be edited out of the wal-mart version of the film.

I think WalMart already does this to a degree? I know they don't sell hard R or unrated films. Hopefully, WalMart is just the 800 pound gorilla to get the studios to try something. That once the ice is broken other more open providers can jump in.

@glockjs Exactly. They are getting no where with the block and sue strategy. Maybe its time to try a give the customer a good value strategy. Especially since this is an area where they wouldn't be cutting into any existing business they own anyway. It would probably piss off Block Buster, but only till they negotiated the same deal as WalMart.

[tnamrog]

There are these things made of paper called books that the publishing industry has been talking about doing print on demand for quite awhile. They are just borrowing this idea.

[zleepy]

WalMart is the ONLY GIANT in the world.
You do what they say or endup like Rubber Maid.

They under sell everyone because WalMar sets the price.
The suppliers meet it or go out of business.

H'wood does not have the clout of WalMart and the Republicans
control all parts of the government.

Guess who's going to get their way