choosing a proc amp

[still falling]

i've read the faqs, the reviews and lots of posts on this forum (which have been incredibly helpful) but i am still uncertain... i know that i need to buy a proc amp to do the kind of work that i do. i am making documentary videos. i use DVD, VHS tape, analog audio and digital audio in my work. some of it is MV-protected, most of it is not. i have a pretty good VTR for analog transfer and I am using an ADVC-100 (which i am really impressed with) for conversion. but i need a proc amp. any suggestions on what to look at, in both pro used equipment and in the SCC-2 class? i will be using a datavideo TBC-1000 for my TBC... thanks in advance!

[gshelley61]

I've had the opportunity to try about two dozen different professional grade and consumer proc amps, TBC's and color correctors... my favorite video processor is the SignVideo Proc Amp. It has an exceptionally clean and accurate signal, features a very useful and important luma/black level meter, provides plenty of correction power for all but the most screwed up sources, and is relatively easy to use.

[lordsmurf]

Mine is the Elite Video BVP-4 Plus, but that may be overkill if you're not after extreme corrections.

I would give a second to the SignVideo or Vidicraft equipment.

[still falling]

I've had the opportunity to try about two dozen different professional grade and consumer proc amps, TBC's and color correctors... my favorite video processor is the SignVideo Proc Amp.

awesome... one other question... i am building a hardware suite around the jvc 9911 vcr, datavideo tbc-1000 and advc-100. it sounds like the signvideo is a good addition to this chain. i can't imagine that i am missing anything for my application but... am i? okay, two questions... what should i expect to pay for a good, used signvideo unit?

thanks for the help!

[gshelley61]

A decent used Studio 1 Productions (SignVideo) Proc Amp will probably go for between $100-$175 for the single type, maybe $150-275 for the dual type. They are somewhat hard to come by on the used market, though.

One other thing to consider would be the SignVideo DR-1000 Image Enhancer (sharpener and detailer).

[trock]

I second all of the above - based on a lot of info from both lordsmurf and gshelley61, my system chain is now JVC-9911 - TBC-1000 - SignVideo DR-1000 - SignVideo Proc Amp and I'm very happy with the setup.

I also have a Vidicraft Detailer 4 at the end of the chain but that's mainly because of its 4 outputs (and the fact that I got it for $15) as it enables me to go to an analog capture card on one system, an Analog to DV box on another, a JVC-DR10MS and a monitor without repatching.

Now I'm trying to find out if there's a hardware unit that provides noise reduction as good as some of the software filters.

trock

[lordsmurf]

NR? I've not found one yet.

[trock]

Me neither. A pity because the software filters add so much time to encoding. How about you gshelley61, did you find anything good for NR among all the units you tested?

[gshelley61]

My Feral A4:2:2 TBC/Frame Synchronizer has very effective chroma noise reduction, coring (another type of video noise reduction), 3D motion adaptive Y/C separation, and adjustable aperture... it works pretty well. Softens the picture, though. Most of the more recent pro TBC's have similar filtering circuits.

I think JVC should create a standalone "DigiPure" video processor, maybe with some adjustable controls. Their NR circuits work very well...

[lordsmurf]

Is it temporal? Or just in-frame?

[gshelley61]

I'm not sure. The instructions don't mention how the filters work exactly. They operate in real time, just like the DNR in JVC VCR's. Digital TV's have these types of filters these days, too.

The MPEG playback filters in the JVC DVD recorder are impressive, too.

[trock]

Thanks, I'll have to check out the Feral. It's true that the JVC's NR circuitry is good but I have an old noisy client tape where even when using the NR in the 9911 and the NR in the DR-10MS, I can't get anywhere close to the results that I can get with even the NR filters in TMPGEnc 3XP. It takes 15:1 to encode though, hence my search for a hardware equivalent.

[CaZeek]

I've briefly discussed this with LS before, but is the Proc Amp actually worth the $100-$200 if using an ATI card with software color adjustment settings during capture? I'm not sure if you're going into a DVD Recorder or cap card, Still Falling. The additional use for me would be playing PAL disks on my NTSC set to kill the color. Other than that convenience though, are there any actual advantages to the hardware (Studio 1/Signvideo) over the software in this respect?

[trock]

Other than that convenience though, are there any actual advantages to the hardware (Studio 1/Signvideo) over the software in this respect?

Well, for me one reason I like to use the hardware approach prior to capture is that I can feed it to a TV/video monitor so that I can really see what I'm doing while making my adjustments rather then trying to judge things on a PC screen. I do have a PC with a separate TV out and I guess I could do the same with that but it's my audio machine not my video capture machine and both machines have used up all available slots.

[lordsmurf]

I was completely satisfied with ATI MMC controls when I was only using the ATI card for transfer. Just be sure your monitor is not too far out of whack compared to the tv when using the proc amp-like software controls.

[gshelley61]

Thanks, I'll have to check out the Feral. It's true that the JVC's NR circuitry is good but I have an old noisy client tape where even when using the NR in the 9911 and the NR in the DR-10MS, I can't get anywhere close to the results that I can get with even the NR filters in TMPGEnc 3XP. It takes 15:1 to encode though, hence my search for a hardware equivalent.

For real tough noise problems, I think software filtering is still the best bet. Time consuming, though.

[gshelley61]

I've briefly discussed this with LS before, but is the Proc Amp actually worth the $100-$200 if using an ATI card with software color adjustment settings during capture? I'm not sure if you're going into a DVD Recorder or cap card, Still Falling. The additional use for me would be playing PAL disks on my NTSC set to kill the color. Other than that convenience though, are there any actual advantages to the hardware (Studio 1/Signvideo) over the software in this respect?

I think trying to adjust the image using capture card picture controls is dicey. Computer monitors don't behave the same way as TV's do, so what appears to look good on the monitor may be way off when played back on a TV. The biggest advantage of the SignVideo Proc Amp in particular is the luma and black level metering that takes much of the guesswork out of the process of setting max luma and standard video black. Once those two settings are established, color and hue can be adjusted by eye with a properly set up TV monitor.

[CaZeek]

I didn't notice the guide on www.signvideo.com to adjust and read the meters.. that's another plus. If I can manage to get one under $75 or so, I'll probably go for it.

[lordsmurf]

I've briefly discussed this with LS before, but is the Proc Amp actually worth the $100-$200 if using an ATI card with software color adjustment settings during capture? I'm not sure if you're going into a DVD Recorder or cap card, Still Falling. The additional use for me would be playing PAL disks on my NTSC set to kill the color. Other than that convenience though, are there any actual advantages to the hardware (Studio 1/Signvideo) over the software in this respect?

I think trying to adjust the image using capture card picture controls is dicey. Computer monitors don't behave the same way as TV's do, so what appears to look good on the monitor may be way off when played back on a TV. The biggest advantage of the SignVideo Proc Amp in particular is the luma and black level metering that takes much of the guesswork out of the process of setting max luma and standard video black. Once those two settings are established, color and hue can be adjusted by eye with a properly set up TV monitor.

Test files and DVD-RW's are your friend.

[still falling]

i am actually taking the firewire output of the advc-100 and capturing on my G5. i haven't been too impressed with cap card image control, which is why i am considering a proc amp. as far as noise goes, my 9911 does a good enough job for now. i know that i need hardware nr but my bank account can't take another hit right now...

[gshelley61]

Test files and DVD-RW's are your friend.

Yes!

[seekninfo]

I've briefly discussed this with LS before, but is the Proc Amp actually worth the $100-$200 if using an ATI card with software color adjustment settings during capture? I'm not sure if you're going into a DVD Recorder or cap card, Still Falling. The additional use for me would be playing PAL disks on my NTSC set to kill the color. Other than that convenience though, are there any actual advantages to the hardware (Studio 1/Signvideo) over the software in this respect?

I think trying to adjust the image using capture card picture controls is dicey. Computer monitors don't behave the same way as TV's do, so what appears to look good on the monitor may be way off when played back on a TV. The biggest advantage of the SignVideo Proc Amp in particular is the luma and black level metering that takes much of the guesswork out of the process of setting max luma and standard video black. Once those two settings are established, color and hue can be adjusted by eye with a properly set up TV monitor.

What TV or monitor do you use or recommend apart from doing it the way That LordSmurf suggests ie with test files and/or DVD-RW

[gshelley61]

I have an off-lease Sony GVM-1311Q high resolution color medical monitor (identical to Sony's really expensive 14" Trinitron broadcast units). Excellent picture, perfectly suited for near field viewing.

eBay, where else...

Here's one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21517&item=3857447797&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

I use the s-video input, from the JVC DR-M10 s-video out.

[seekninfo]

Thanks for the reply..

Since the final product is going to be played on a TV can this (ie a TV) be used to adjust the colors during the transfer from LD or VHS tapes to DVD discs?

Also can anyone comment on the use of LaCie monitors (either from knowledge or experience) for use in color adjustment during transfer to DVD disc. The transfer will be done mainly using a DVD recorder but occasionally to a computer thro' a capture card.

As always any reply will be appreciated...

[gshelley61]

The Sony monitor is a CRT television (it just does not have a tuner and has a high resolution tube). It behaves just like a regular TV, but can be viewed from a closer distance because of the fine pitch screen. This is what I use to do all my color correction.

I was using a small cheap TV before, but it was no good from 2 or 3 feet away because of the low resolution screen. You could probably use a small Trinitron consumer TV, but the higher res broadcast (and medical) monitors are much better when you are sitting relatively close.