Fitting a movie onto one CDR using KVCD

[jam99]

Ok..........I've read and read yet I think I may have missed something.
I had a .avi movie that was 850MB that when I went to encode to VCD was over 1000MB and therefore won't fit onto a disc. I read about this KVCD thing and followed the guide found here:

http://www.weethet.nl/english/video_divx2kvcd_subs.php

I followed the instructions to the letter yet after about 20+ hours of encoding I'm left with an MPEG file of the movie that is 956MB....and thus won't fit onto one CDR. Now I've read that I should be able to easily fit 2 hours of content onto one CDR but I'm stuck. Am I choosing the wrong KVCD template or did I miss something? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[hwoodwar]

You may already know this, but KVCD templates produce XVCD's (do not strictly meet the VCD standard, usually a lower video bitrate than what is specified by the 'Standard") which do not work in "all" standalone DVD players. Kwag; the guy who developed these templates "sometimes" checks this website, but you are much better off checking the information at his website (www.kvcd.net) and if necessary leaving your question there. I am sorry I can't help any more. I have only briefly tried a few of his templates.

[ZippyP.]

You could try this guide.

[andybno1]

well it deffinately seems your doing something wrong, to do a KVCD you will need the following:

Avisynth
KVCD Template
AVISynth Filters (go in C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins)
KVCD Optimal Script
TMPGEnc

KVCD are not the quickest things to encode but in order for the quality you want you will have to wait maybe 4 hours if it is all setup properly (normally leave it to do when u sleep)

anyway if u need anymore help pm me and I'll be more than happy to help you further.

[jimmalenko]

Can't you just load one of the KVCD templates in your TMPGEnc and go from there ?

Just tried a few of the links but I'm not prepared to spend the $2.99

[jam99]

Thanks Zippy.....I'm currently encoding using the link that you sent me and hopefully it'll work.

Thanks andybno1: I'm trying the suggestion that Zippy gave me but if it doesn't work I may come back asking for your help.....I think they call that hedging my bet but what can I say 8)

I will post back one way or the other......thanks all.

[qajfat]

Hi andybno 1, I assume you've had some experience with DIKO, so I direct my problem to you, maybe you will be able to help me. I did a couple of conversions and they worked fine, results were good. Now I just tried a 2-CD conversion, but unfortunately after over 8 hours work DIKO crashed after writing the first .BIN file. So I've ended up with a lot of huge files but only one BIN file. Is there a way of saving all the work and carry on from where it stopped -DVD authoring (unfortunately I tried the conversion recovery and the LOG file was overwritten). Can you please help me? I tried the KVCD.net forum, but we don't have PayPal in my country so I cannot register. But I'm hoping you know what to do. Thank you

[bugster]

Just tried a few of the links but I'm not prepared to spend the $2.99

Kwag actually charges to use the forum these days

I suppose he had to find some way of paying his bandwidth charges

[jimmalenko]

Just tried a few of the links but I'm not prepared to spend the $2.99

Kwag actually charges to use the forum these days

I suppose he had to find some way of paying his bandwidth charges

Yep. You can't even browse a topic anonymously without paying.

[jam99]

Well I tried Zippy's way and produced a slightly smaller Mpeg file that still wouldn't fit onto one disc and it was "squished" up and down.

Andybno1: I've downloaded Avisynth, the KVCD tmeplates and TMPGEnc but can't seem to locate the AviSynth Filters or KVCD Optimal Script without having to pay the guy @ KVCD.net which I can't/won't do. Is there a guide somewhere that can walk me through this as it's getting kinda frustrating knowing that it can be done but not being able to do it myself. Thanks in advance.

[ZippyP.]

Well I tried Zippy's way and produced a slightly smaller Mpeg file that still wouldn't fit onto one disc and it was "squished" up and down.

How did you calculate the bitrate? Did you use the project wizard and set it to fill the disk? There was a bug in an older version of TMPGEnc that made VCD's at the full 1150 bitrate no matter the setting. What version are you using?

Be sure to select Video CD (non-standard) and for the "squishing" select Full Screen (keep aspect ratio).

BTW, you do know that a typical CD will hold 800 MB as a VCD, right?

[jam99]

Hi Zippy.

Well I went and tried jimmalenko's guide from his website and am now currently encoding it and crossing my fingers. I think I may have missed a step or two the first time I tried it. This time I followed his advice exactly and am hoping it will work. Thanks for your help.....and I will write back as to whether it worked or not.

[jimmalenko]

Well I went and tried jimmalenko's guide from his website and am now currently encoding it and crossing my fingers. I think I may have missed a step or two the first time I tried it. This time I followed his advice exactly and am hoping it will work. Thanks for your help.....and I will write back as to whether it worked or not.

Guides are designed to be followed ... TO THE LETTER.

[lordsmurf]

Just tried a few of the links but I'm not prepared to spend the $2.99

Kwag actually charges to use the forum these days
I suppose he had to find some way of paying his bandwidth charges

I don't think he has the kind of customers he needs. We are, after all, talking about a group that is so stingy withy CD-R that they try to cram everything on one disc. If they will not spend $0.30 on a DVD-R, they sure as hell won't be spending 10x that amount for info alone. Not to mention the unprofessional atmosphere of the kvcd site and some of the outright vulgarity of its past members. That's just the way I see things.

I can understand paysite models, but there's a give-and-take relationship that needs to be had. His fails the "successful" model formula.

[mikesbytes]

Yes the need to produce on CDR's has definetly declined. Unless you have a unique situation like mine, ie overseas parents with no DVD player and a Win95 P133 pc

If I was Kwang, I would revise the home page, to make it more dynamic. Videohelp uses latestest posts, guides, tools to add that difference, Doom9 and CDFeaks use news, however that requires a bit more day to day effort. Once he is getting more home page hits, a bit of advertising in the right places will help him with the costs.

[Capmaster]

Just tried a few of the links but I'm not prepared to spend the $2.99

Kwag actually charges to use the forum these days
I suppose he had to find some way of paying his bandwidth charges

I don't think he has the kind of customers he needs. We are, after all, talking about a group that is so stingy withy CD-R that they try to cram everything on one disc. If they will not spend $0.30 on a DVD-R, they sure as hell won't be spending 10x that amount for info alone. Not to mention the unprofessional atmosphere of the kvcd site and some of the outright vulgarity of its past members. That's just the way I see things.

I can understand paysite models, but there's a give-and-take relationship that needs to be had. His fails the "successful" model formula.

Yes indeed. We've had some of the KVCD fanatics show up here ranting and raving about their format. They remind me of cult members

[animatron]

We are, after all, talking about a group that is so stingy withy CD-R that they try to cram everything on one disc. If they will not spend $0.30 on a DVD-R, they sure as hell won't be spending 10x that amount for info alone.

Do I notice some kind of "pissiness" from you to the kvcd fans?
I mean, is it your job to persecute all kvcd threads? (yes, your negative "KVCD->post count" is hilarious )

Not to mention the unprofessional atmosphere of the kvcd site and some of the outright vulgarity of its past members. That's just the way I see things.

You see wrong
As a matter of fact, I am a member of kvcd.net, and the atmosphere there is completely different to this place
You will not find "personal" debates there, because all they do is talk about advanced video stuff. Trust me. I've seen very little posts there 1/10th as nasty as this thread, and they get deleted in seconds.
And I like that a lot

I can understand paysite models, but there's a give-and-take relationship that needs to be had. His fails the "successful" model formula.

I wouldn't count on that
http://www.kvcd.net/portal/articles.php?lng=en&pg=378

And I love a clean forum where I don't have to see banner ads all the time.
That's one of the things they promised there. Zero advertizements on the forum, just because of the users paying for the registration.

Ciao!

[jam99]

jimmalenko:

Well I followed your guide exactly except for the "Part #1: Obtaining your source" because the movie I have was already in .mpg format. Well low and behold after 21 hours of encoding I turned a 965MB into a 0.97GB. When I went to burn it in Nero 5.5 it exceeds the capacity of my media (an 80 min. - 700MB CDR) as the bar at the bottom goes to almost 900MB. Any ideas as to what I did wrong? This is the third time I re-encoded this same movie using different guides found on the net (this is the first time I tried yours though) spending at least 20 hours+ to encode each time and I've yet to be able to produce a file that is small enough to fit onto one CDR. Suggestions? Thanks in advance.

[ZippyP.]

Suggestions?

Just one (or two)...

There was a bug in an older version of TMPGEnc that made VCD's at the full 1150 bitrate no matter the setting.

This bug would make your VCD's too big if you have that older version of TMPGEnc, make sure you have the latest. Also, make sure you choose Video CD (non-standard) under the video tab.

[jam99]

Hi Zippy.

I have TMPGEnc Plus 2.5 (version 2.59.47.155) (core version 1.92.142).
Is this an old version?
I see there's a 2.521 which I just downloaded.....maybe this is the problem? I'll try it again.
In the MPEG setting folder in the sytem tab it is set to MPEG-1 VIDEO-CD (non-standard).
I'll report back my findings......thanks.

[lordsmurf]

2.59 is several years old

[jimmalenko]

Well low and behold after 21 hours of encoding I turned a 965MB into a 0.97GB.

It is purely a guess without knowing your computer details (please fill them in!), but it would appear to me that 21 hours is waaaaaaay too long, even for a 2-pass encode.

When I went to burn it in Nero 5.5 it exceeds the capacity of my media (an 80 min. - 700MB CDR) as the bar at the bottom goes to almost 900MB. Any ideas as to what I did wrong?

I think you've either got the system stream type set at MPEG-1 VideoCD (it needs to be MPEG-1 VideoCD (non-standard), or you have calculated the average bitrate wrong.

BTW, why are you using the MPEG as your source ? You should be using the AVI

[jam99]

Thanks.....I'm currently encoding it with 2.521 and I'm praying that it works this time or else I just may snap (or just use 2 CDR's and quit being so cheap...... )

[jam99]

Hi Jim.

Yeah I've got a old P.O.S. PIII 550MHz---just over the minimum...I know I've got to get with the 2000's already.....I just got high-speed after dealing with dial-up for years so I'm slowing getting there 8) . Any way I could speed the encoding up without buying a new computer?

I think it may have been the old version of TMPGEnc that I was using....I hope. I made sure it was set @ Mpeg1- Video CD (non standard) and followed your tuturial to a T.

Also, I'm using an Mpeg as my source because I encoded using Main Concept before I learned about this new way of your's and deleted the AVI file......will be using AVI's from now on.

Thanks for all your help and I will post back my results.

[mats.hogberg]

So, you're trying to cram 2 hrs+ worth of AVI, encoded and reencoded to mpeg into 800 MB? Frankly, it'll look like sh*t no matter what you do.

/Mats

[offline]

Just tried a few of the links but I'm not prepared to spend the $2.99

Kwag actually charges to use the forum these days
I suppose he had to find some way of paying his bandwidth charges

I don't think he has the kind of customers he needs. We are, after all, talking about a group that is so stingy withy CD-R that they try to cram everything on one disc. If they will not spend $0.30 on a DVD-R, they sure as hell won't be spending 10x that amount for info alone. Not to mention the unprofessional atmosphere of the kvcd site and some of the outright vulgarity of its past members. That's just the way I see things.

I can understand paysite models, but there's a give-and-take relationship that needs to be had. His fails the "successful" model formula.

I don't believe Kwag is after a profit. If he was he'd charge for his
guides which are still currently free. $2.99 for forum access and
advice seems a good idea imo. At that price he should cover his
bandwidth no problem and yet not alienate users with high charges.
I bet even Baldrick has considered it for videohelp.com!

[jam99]

So, you're trying to cram 2 hrs+ worth of AVI, encoded and reencoded to mpeg into 800 MB? Frankly, it'll look like sh*t no matter what you do.

/Mats

Not trying to put 2 hours+ onto one CDR......I have an Mpeg file that is 965MB (~1.5 hrs.) that I'd like to have on one CDR and I don't have a DVD burner or else I'd just use that. It's not a matter of "wanting to use one disc'" for the sake of "cramming" as much as possible onto one disc.....more of a matter of trying to simplify the burning method and fit one movie onto a disc so it's easier for my kids to view it. Hope that makes sense.

[mikesbytes]

You could trying running the video thru some filters on VirtualDub or similar program. If you reduce the noise, then you have less to encode.

Alternatively or additionaly, you could simply reduce the CQ or some other setting in TPMG.

[gll99]

It's been a long time since I played with kvcd's but as I recall (at least for me) achieving maximum compression was only possible under these conditions:

Lower the audio bitrate to 128 or less
For ntsc use 23.976 with pulldown(pullup) and not 29.97 framerate Smooth the image as much as you can tolerate using noise reduction in tmpgenc or preprocess with filters in virtualdub.
Widescreen video with black borders top and bottom converted to pure black compressed the best ensuring that little of the encoder bitrate was used in those areas.

The KVCD templates were to me very innovative when I discovered them here and on kwag's site and will not knock them because they served me well when I needed something different to try.

I'm sure you've heard this before but with the cost of DVD writers and blank discs being really low now it's much more cost effective to move to DVD discs for video storage. I often put captured video's including children's programs directly to dvd and it's a breeze with many tools to choose from. One of the tools I often mention because I got it free with a hardware purchase is NEODVD. It converts avi and mpeg to dvd format and even has a write directly to disc option. In case someone wonders, I have no connection to the company but it's my fallback tool when I want to quickly capture or convert a tv show directly to DVD.

[Shadowmistress]

Jam99, before you go recoding your movie yet again, you need to know if your dvd player will play non-standard vcd's before you go any further. This is what I suggest using tmpgenc and nero only. (You don't really need any other software or kvcd.)

*Open tmpg and hit file, new project.
*Save this blank project by hitting the save button on the main screen on the right side where it says Setting, Load, Save. Save it with the name Unlocked in that directory.
*Open the project wizard now (file,project wizard)
*Now on the left at the bottom you should see the Unlocked template. Choose it.
*Load up your video and set aspect ratio to 4:3 525 line (ntsc) if you're in north america, 4:3 625 (pal) if you're in europe, next
*next (skip the page entirely where it says noise reduction etc..)
*now hit the expert button
*find the system tab and select MPEG-1 System (VBR)
*go to the audio tab and select MPEG-1 Audio Layer II, now you can change the biterate here to make the sound part smaller but it's you're choice. Personally I choose 64 but I squeeze an ungodly amount onto a cd.
*Skip the next 2 tabs and go to Advanced tab. Under Video Arrange method choose Full Screen (keep aspect ratio). this will keep the picture from getting smushed
*Double click Source range and set your end point about 5 minutes after the start point and hit ok. (this is for testing)
*Go to the Video tab and make sure your settings are Mpeg-1 video, 352x240, 4:3 525 line (ntsc), 29.97 fps, Constant biterate, (adjust the biterate later so skip the number), motion search lowest quality (very fast). Hit ok at the bottom.
*Now choose your media and adjust the size you want it to be. If you're burning a test set your bitrate to 1000 or something, dont fill up the whole space. hit next.
*Burn it

*now open nero or your burning software
make a video cd but it is highly important that you turn off "standard compliancy" otherwise it will try to re-encode it for you and make it the wrong size.
* burn it, pop it into your dvd and see if it plays. If it doesn't you're out of luck on your dvd player and it won't work no matter what. You have to split it into 2 discs. If it does, repeat these procedures leaving out the source range part.

(Don't you wish everyone would answer your questions this way?)