25fps to 29.97fps question

[sdsumike619]

I converted an avi from 25 to 29.97 fps (video using VirtualDub and audio using BeSweet) Audio and video are still perfectly in sync however, it's too fast! How can I slow it down so that the talkign is normal again as well as just everything in general, need to slow it down to a normal speed,, help!!

[yoda313]

Hello,

Not sure which guide you used but here are few that may help:

https://www.videohelp.com/guides.php?tools=&madeby=&formatconversionselect=&howtoselect...or+List+Guides

If you follow one of them all the way through hopefully you should get a normal video that will be NTSC compliant Good luck.

Kevin

[junkmalle]

If you're planning to make a movie DVD you probably want to convert to 23.976 fps. Then when you convert to MPEG use the "3:2 pulldown on playback" option so that the DVD player will convert to 29.97 fps while playing the DVD. This will result in a DVD that plays only a little bit (~4 percent) slower than the original AVI.

[fritzi93]

I agree, it's best to convert to 23.976. Don't know which guide you used, but there's a nice concise guide over there <- by JohnsO, for PAL to NTSC and NTSC to PAL conversions. Do a search by author and you'll find it. All that's needed is VirtualDub (recommend VirtualDub MPEG2) and BeSweet (with GUI v.0.7 b4). Preview to check for sync before saving a new AVI. Then convert to MPEG2. (You're on the right track, most of the above is for others who may be interested.)

Good luck.

[sdsumike619]

Hmm, I sort of tried the 23.976fps thing first, but it sure seems like the only thing that DVDWS2 will accept is 29.97fps files, but that shouldn't be the case, maybe it has somethign to do with that 3:2 pulldown thing. So I should just do a direct stream copy in virtual dub of the avi, but change the framerate to 23.976, and then when I get ready to encode to mpg2, I want to select that 3:2 pulldown option? What about the audio? before I just used besweet's preset of converting pal to ntsc , I don't recall seeing anytihng about pull down in that program?

[sdsumike619]

what about this option in virtualdumb mpgg2:

Frame rate decimation
Decimation pulls frames from a source at regular intervals. This is useful for producing "thumbnail" videos with small sizes, and for dropping the rate of a video without introducing jerkiness due to uneven frame rate. The decimation interval must be a positive integer.
It also says that framerate decimation will not affect a/v sync..hmmmm

I already rendered my avi that was converted to 29.97 to an m2v file. Is there a way that I can now take this m2v file and do the pulldown thing, or does it need to be done at the time that it's rendered to mpg2?

[marsmayhem]

There's a program called pulldown.exe that will add 3:2 playback flags to your MPEG2 stream. I think you have to demux the video stream first and run the program against just the video stream.

HTH

[sdsumike619]

haha, it's so funny how everytime someone runs into a problem there is a whole program developed to fix that problem, I've never seen so many programs developed except for having to do with video editing!

My stream is already elementary, it's just an m2v file at 29.97fps - will the pulldown.exe program work in this case?

[junkmalle]

You can quickly change the frame rate of an AVI file with AVIFrate. It simply changes the header of the AVI file so that the video plays at the specified frame rate.

So just take your original 25 fps AVI file and change it to 23.976 fps with AVIFrate. Of course, if you play the modified file the audio will go progressively out of sync because it still plays at the original speed. But you know how to fix that with BeSweet. Extract the audio and adjust the length to reflect the difference in frame rate in the video (25/23.976).

Finally, take the video from the 23.976 fps AVI file and your modified WAV file from BeSweet and convert those into an MPEG file at 23.976. Most programs that convert to MPEG support a "3:2 pulldown when playback" option.

[fritzi93]

I doubt any fix is going to work on that file you made (the converted one), could be wrong. Easier to do the speedup-slowdown method, in your case, slowing down to NTSC film rate, 23.976. Usually no problem doing that. THEN, let your MPEG encoder make it DVD compliant. For example, in TMPGEnc, use the DVD template to convert to 29.97. Or do the pulldown method. Good luck.

[sdsumike619]

ok, I used the pulldown.exe program, it seems to have worked in that it slowed down the video. Now my question is, how can I slow down the audio to match what I did with pulldown.exe for the video?

[sdsumike619]

well I did everything,, I got an .m2v file and an .ac3 file and opened them the womble mpeg editor and everything was perfectly in sync and I figured i was ready to author the DVD. So I opened DVD workshop 2 and proceeded to import my clips. Finally, everything was compliant, and i went to burn the disc image, which was successful so i burned a DVD.

something happened that caused the playback to jerk every second or so and the audio was way out of sync on the final dvd - what happened?

All DVD Workshop did was mux the m2v and ac3 file together to make the vob files and create an .iso for me to burn,,, what could have happened to make everything go to sh*t ?

[junkmalle]

I think where you went wrong was at the pulldown.exe stage. You started with a 29.97 M2V file that was not telecined, it was progressive (because you had converted the original 25 fps AVI file to 29.97 fps with VirtualDub, and then converted that to M2V).

You have to go back to your original 25 fps AVI file and use the procudure I outlined a while back in the message about AVIFrate.

[sdsumike619]

I"m looking at this AVIFrate program, and I'm clueless as to how to use it, can you explain how exactly to change the frame rate? the help file is talking about dwrates and dwscales, and there's two boxes, one says rate, one says fps, where do I put in the 23.976 ? I'm lost here...

[sdsumike619]

and if that's the case, then why did everything look fine and play fine when I played it in the Womble program? I simply put the m2v and the ac3 on the timeline, and it was all in sync, no jerkiness,,, something happened in DVDWS2 to cause it to happen

[junkmalle]

I"m looking at this AVIFrate program, and I'm clueless as to how to use it, can you explain how exactly to change the frame rate? the help file is talking about dwrates and dwscales, and there's two boxes, one says rate, one says fps, where do I put in the 23.976 ? I'm lost here...

Oh, the AVIFrate program referenced from videohelp.com has problems. Try the one from here:

http://www.inmatrix.com/files/avifrate_download.shtml

It's usage is much more obvious (open file, set frame rate from pulldown menu, save file).

[sdsumike619]

ok that program is easy so if I understand correctly, I DON'T need that pulldown.exe program with your method then?

[junkmalle]

ok that program is easy so if I understand correctly, I DON'T need that pulldown.exe program with your method then?

That's right, you won't need pulldown with my method (the same method used in most of the PAL->NTSC guides here). Pulldown recreates 23.976 fps progressive images from a 29.97 telecined/interlaced video. You will just be creating a progressive 23.976 fps AVI by using AVIFrate.

[sdsumike619]

ok, what settings should I use in tmpgenc using your method to encode the avi and wav file? Should I put the aspect ratio at 1:1 or should I chane it to 4:3 ? anything else? there's so many settings in tmpegenc

[junkmalle]

ok, what settings should I use in tmpgenc using your method to encode the avi and wav file? Should I put the aspect ratio at 1:1 or should I chane it to 4:3 ? anything else? there's so many settings in tmpegenc

Source aspect ratio should be 1:1 (AVI files are usually 1:1 pixel aspect ratio -- square pixels). The output aspect ratio should be 4:3 because you're going to a TV. Be sure to set the output "frame rate" to "23.976 fps (internally 29.97 fps)" and set the "encode mode" to "3:2 pulldown when playback". For the video arrange method you probably want "Full screen (keep aspect ratio)".

[adam]

You also have to set the "do not framerate conversion" filter on the advanced tab. Otherwise you will lose 1 frame every second.

[sdsumike619]

grrrrrrrrrrrrr nothing I've done has worked! I've followed all these guides, instructions, everything, and neither tmpgenc dvd author nor dvd workshop accepts these files as compliant, and the only time they were compliant, it was choppy and out of sync. Nothing has worked, it seems that converting from 25fps to NTSC can't be accomplished, tried so many things, does ANYONE know exactly how to do it? has anyone successfully done it? why is it so freaking difficult, I've wasted soooooooooo much time and I'm ready to put my fist through this screen! Nothing works, tmpgenc doesn't work, Vegas 5 doesn't work, CCE is shit, I've never had so many problems

[adam]

I've done this many times, and it is very easy to do with just about any mpeg encoder.

It seems you've already been given all the necessary steps, but I'll consolidate it.

In TMPGenc, turn off the wizard if its on. Load your video source. Load the NTSC DVD template, then load the unlock template. On the video tab change the framerate to 23.976fps (29.97fps internal) and change the encode mode to 3:2 pulldown while playback. Set your bitrate to whatever you want.

On the advanced tab set the source aspect ratio to 1:1 and set it to full screen keep aspect ratio. Enable the "do not framerate conversion" filter. Hit ok to return to the main screen. Set output type to video stream only (m2v) and hit encode. That's it for your video stream.

For audio, import it into BeSweet and enable the PAL->NTSC option. Encode to whatever audio format you want. I recommend AC3. Now either import these elementary streams (audio and video separately) into your authoring program if it accepts it, or use any multiplexor to combine them into a program stream first. TMPGenc's mpeg tools function will work.

[sdsumike619]

Ok, update lol,,,, I decided to just make a PAL dvd, I encoded the avi to m2v and the audio to ac3 all in PAL format and it worked perfectly. Only problem is I can't play it on the set top dvd player as it is NTSC, it works on th computer though. Now that it has been successfully authored with the VOBs and everything, is there an easy way to just conver the finished product to NTSC? so that I can play it on my set top player?

[junkmalle]

Ok, update lol,,,, I decided to just make a PAL dvd, I encoded the avi to m2v and the audio to ac3 all in PAL format and it worked perfectly. Only problem is I can't play it on the set top dvd player as it is NTSC, it works on th computer though. Now that it has been successfully authored with the VOBs and everything, is there an easy way to just conver the finished product to NTSC? so that I can play it on my set top player?

It will be even harder to convert now and you'll have to go through another generation of decoding and encoding which will lose more quality.

Just buy a $35 DVD player that plays PAL on NTSC TVs! Or a $70 DVD player that will play MPEG 4 files.