Tips for filming concerts with Sony PDX10?

[Vom]

I just bought a Sony DSR-PDX10, in hopes of improving the quality of the live videos I shoot on a regular basis. As this is a pretty big step up from what I was using before (a Sony TRV-11, which I usually had to resort to nightshot for poorly lit clubs), I'm a little underwhelmed at the results.

Here's a couple grabs:






It seems as soon as those red lights come on, the shot goes to hell. If anyone has any experience with this camera, or has any suggestions (shutter speed, exposure, etc) for use in this environment, please help me out. Are there filters available? Can this be color corrected in Premiere Pro?


Any tips on mic settings would be greatly appreciated, too. It'll be trial and error for now, but any tips would help out a lot.

[vandakeg]

you might have better luck asking the same question at www.creativecow.net that place is almost as informative as this site... but geared more towards video editing as opposed to video conversion.

[SoundFX]

most consumer cameras auto adjust themselves to lighting, so drastic changes screw up your video. red is a bad color for ntsc anyway. try setting white balance and exposure to a manual mode. don't use any shutter, high shutter speeds take LOTS of light. i also like a circular polarizing filter on the front of the camera (or some times a multi point star-but that will soften)

[proxyx99]

most consumer cameras auto adjust themselves to lighting, so drastic changes screw up your video. red is a bad color for ntsc anyway. try setting white balance and exposure to a manual mode. don't use any shutter, high shutter speeds take LOTS of light. i also like a circular polarizing filter on the front of the camera (or some times a multi point star-but that will soften)

Good advice. Definitely use manual exposure control including white balance set manually or use one of the presets that works for you (and try avoiding auto settings). Changing light conditions will fool the camera and screw your color balance. Color correction can be done afterwards in your editing software. Depending on your software you can change exposure, color saturation and adjustment (add or subtract). Also you can remove camera shake as well as use automatic exposure/color adjustment. Plenty of options here (some not avail. in Premiere Pro).
Yours seems to be 3lux cam, OK but not great under low light so set your expectations accordingly. Pro shoots use more light and better equipment. Remember you chose to shoot under the most difficult conditions so be realistic.

[Vom]

Changing light conditions will fool the camera and screw your color

No kidding...I spend the majority of the evenings with my finger on the exposure dial and one eye on the monitor. Yellow/blue lights are GREAT for some reason: they don't affect skin tones at, but red...now I know why they call it "seeing red".

I was hoping there might be a way to make the automated settings a little better, as I miss a lot of shots when staring at the camera instead of the stage.

I'd like to experiment with some different mics, as well. The mic that comes with the PDX10 is "ok"...but a little too directional for my liking. I have a Shure SM-57 and 58 that I'll have to bring out next time, as the camera has an extra XLR input.

Thanks for the tips so far. I need to find that plugin for Premiere that stabilizes shaky images now.

[ZAPPER]

CRAP!!! I thought I had an answer for you, but I can't find the book. I think that there are lens filters that will help but I can't find the names or numbers. Talk to a real photo pro if you can, at a real photo equipment store. The problem that I am running into is the actual size of camcorder lenses v/s the filter sizes for SLR cameras. I haven't looked in awhile but there were not as many choices for camcorder sized lenses as there were for SLRs, without adapters or tapeing the filter to the cam. I will keep looking for my book that I think has the answer and get back to you when I find it. In the mean time check out B&H s web site they may have the solution. As for for mics and sound use additional audio recording devices with differnt mics. you can add and edit them to your video during post production. I am going nuts trying to find my damb photography book.

[Vom]

I am going nuts trying to find my damb photography book.

I'll check your tips out...I hear there's lots of stuff on the internet.

The camera comes with a couple shrouds (?)...or whatever they're called. I should be able to find a filter that'll fit. The place I bought it from has some pretty helpful staff who usually end up in hour-long conversations every time I stop by there with questions. I'm surprised they haven't recommended any websites to me yet.

As for live sound recording, I was looking into a portable DAT deck, but they're kinda $pendy...and seeing's how I'm always up front, in the middle of rowdy crowds, portability is the biggest issue.

Anyone have any luck with getting live feeds off the monitor mix, or is it best to go with the front of house mix?*


*realizes there are live audio forums out there...just askin'.

[ZAPPER]

I found my book! But it didn't have the article that I was thinking of (maybe it was a catalog that had the explainations of what filter did what) Any how try something in the way of a green filter to cut back on the red.(try before you buy, my expierence with filters is with film and that was 20 years ago, I may be screwing up)
Just some of my thoughts about filters: I always like to get as much information as I can on the film, or tape in this case, and then add any effects or edit out what is needed. When I say "information" I mean lots of well lit subject and as much of it in focus as conditions allow. Filters do block light and light is what you need to make an image, so I am kind of against heavy filters on the lens unless you are going for some kind of artsie effect. The good thing is that auto exposure tends to allow for the lost light when you use a filter. I think that every lens that I have has a polarizing or neutral density filter on it of some kind for a couple of reasons. Glare is one reason. It seems that sometimes that glare doesn't show in the veiwfinder and you don't know that it is happening until it is too late. Glare can wash out parts of your subject to the point that there is no after shot chance of fixing it. Contrast is another good filter to have or use. I can't explain it technically but it does seem to sharpen the image and kind of keep it from getting washed out. Lens protection is the real reason that I keep filter on every lens that I have! I don't really know for sure what value the filters are, but on like a long lens or a zoom that are for outdoor shooting I keep a polarizing filter on, figuring that I will be in the sun and can't control it and I need to protect the lens from sand and water. For my short lenses like a wide angle I have neutral density or contrasting filters just because it seems like indoor light is kind of muddy or every thing is the same color. On my camcorder I keep a cheap wide angle adapter. (cheap because it was the only thing that the store had that would screw onto my camcorder right then!) The wide angle doesn't make that much difference for tight places like I want, but it doesn't hurt the zoom any either. Even if I scratched a high dollar filter(I don't really own any high dollar filters) I could relpace it myself without sending the cam away cheaper than a new lens. My suggestion (and every good sales persons suggestion) is to put a protective filter of some kind on your lens!
Another thought on filters (being that I am on a roll) is that there are adapter sets that allow you to change to the size filter that you want (because sure enough the filter that you want wont fit without it) just make sure that the adapter and filter combo doesn't show on the recording.
Enjoy the pro help at the camera shop. I think that it is one of the few places that sales people might even know what they are talking about.

As for the sound: put the recorder in a back pack or belt or vest. If you have access to tie into the sound system go for that too. Use the house sound for the wide shots and the monitor sound for close ups or to cover any unwanted sounds from the nearby crowd.

[proxyx99]

Considering filter use, you may look into 82 series (light blue tone filter) to elininate yellow/red hue. Same may be achieved by manipulating your cam's white balance (set to manual and decrease red component by a small amount). Since light spectrum may change wildly during the event (from pure white to green, blue and red) do not overdo your color correction (filters) as you may screw up the image (you won't know beforehand what the dominant color may be for the upcoming event). Safest way is to use light filtration (if any), manual white balance and applying color correction routines in postproduction. My choice would be the last two.
I've done that several times after shooting indoors under different lighting cond. and the results were very good. To my surprise Pinnacle Studio 9 and 8 were very effective in that dept (and quite fast). I compared the results of the same batch that I did at work on Avid and home on Pinnacle and in both cases the outcome was very pleasing. I think you should experiment a bit and soon you'll know which way to go.
Vixen is a very capable corrective plugin for Premiere but slow. Dynapel will allow for camera shake cleanup. I'm not a Premiere guy (and will never be, most likely) so these are just general pointers. I never edit with one tool only, instead I use what fits best the task and the nature of the project (from cheapo editors like Pinnacle Studio 9 to Edition 5 incl. some others as well, as the situation calls for it)

[Vom]

Any how try something in the way of a green filter to cut back on the red.

I've been thinking about that...what colors cancel each other out. It would be cool to have a quick-change filter system...something like:



Thanks again for all the ideas.


proxyx99....I've had some pretty good results with the contrast and color settings in Pinnacle Studio. I usually do all the rough editing in Studio, then finish things up in Premiere Pro, and have to say I like the color/contrast settings a lot better in Studio, for some reason. Ease of use, I guess.

In the end, I pretty much have to go through every. single. frame. and adjust the color, but I guess it makes it look more interesting....and with music videos, that's the most important thing.

[proxyx99]

proxyx99....I've had some pretty good results with the contrast and color settings in Pinnacle Studio. I usually do all the rough editing in Studio, then finish things up in Premiere Pro, and have to say I like the color/contrast settings a lot better in Studio, for some reason. Ease of use, I guess.

In the end, I pretty much have to go through every. single. frame. and adjust the color, but I guess it makes it look more interesting....and with music videos, that's the most important thing.

Some time ago I thought that Pinnacle Studio would be a temp solution for some simple stuff and like you I find myself keeping on coming back for exacly the reason, great feel and simplicity.

"Image Stabilization--Fix those shaky handheld shots
Automatic Colour Correction--Correct poorly lit shots
Analogue Cleaning--Restore old videotapes
Noise Reduction--Remove annoying wind noise, hiss, and camcorder whine"
(from Pinnacle website - Studio 9)

With these new features that can be found only on high end editors no wonder that we both find it appealing. "Worst" part of all is that they DO work and give great results.

[handyguy]

Just get a white or neutral gray card (photo store), point your camera at it when you are in the stuido & push your white balance button. It should set your camera properly.