DVDLab and AC3 audio

[cdcox]

Ok I will try to explain this as simple as possible.
I have a 1.5 hr video of family stuff which is broken into about 10 different chapters, which are short video clips. I encoded with tmpgenc and output an m2v@5700kbs and a wav file. I then converted the wav to ac3 with tmgenc ac3 encoder to 256kbs.
My problem or concern is, when I bring the ac3 and m2v files into dvdlab and go to make my chapter points, towards the end of the video, it will not allows me to make one, it is like dvdlab does not like the I frames only in certain parts of the video. However, if I use the same m2v with the wav sound file, I do not experience this problem. Is it possible that this is caused by the ac3 encoded file? Or is there something that I could be doing wrong.
To set my chapter point I use the "Next I frame" button to get to the point I want the chapter. I am going to play with it some tonight, but I thought if someone could point out something I may be doing, then I could suffer less aggrivation?
I am also going to try reencoding the files to see if this helps. I am using the trial version of dvdlab to see if I want to purchase it. I liked it up to this point, this is the longest video I have done and the first one with ac3 audio in dvdlab, I think it has got to be something I have done?
Any suggestions?
Thanks

[cdcox]

Update:
so far it does not matter what I do when the ac3 file is used to compile the dvd after the 4th chapter the video and the audio are not in sync. Example when I go to chapters 1 thru 3 they start at the correct place and the audio is on. When I go to chapter 4 and beyond, the video is stuck between the chapter 3 & 4 point but the audio is correct or at the correct chapter point. I am in the process now of trying it with a lower bitrate m2v of the same video and wav as the sound file. I'll post back, but if anyone has a suggestion as to why this is happening, please post, unless you are as lost as me. As of now, without ac3 audio working correctly in dvdlab, this program isn't worth the money, and my trial is running out. Would be nice to figure this out before then, because I like the program.

[pijetro]

Here'a a few guesses....

1) Try adding chapter points to the movie first..When you've done this, then add the .AC3 audio onto the timeline after.

2) Have you actually burnt a disc and find this problem, or was it from software playback only??

Sometimes, i'll experience the .AC3 totally disappears after, say, fast forwarding a clip..But when i burn the disk, everything is okee dokee..

I'll assume your original .WAV source was 48khz before encoding to .AC3....

Don't go through the aggravation of reencoding. This isn't your problem.

[cdcox]

Yes I did actually burn a disc and it does the same thing on a table top player as it did in software on the pc. All the testing I've done tonight has been on a pc because I don't want to waste any more discs, however it is doing the exact same thing.
I just completed the m2v and wav compile and it does the same damn thing. I have made several short dvd's with dvdlab and had no problems, however 1 to1.5 hr videos are a norm for me and I can't get this to work right so I am not going to waste the money. It seems like dvdlab doesn't like longer clips?? Which I know this can not be true otherwise people would not talk it up as they do. I really like what the software can do and the control you have over the project, however the perks are not worth the hassel

pijetro asks

I'll assume your original .WAV source was 48khz before encoding to .AC3....

Yes it was.

I will try adding chapters before ac3 and also I am going to try and compile with no sound and see if the chapters come out correctly.
I figured it was not and encoding issue however I redid it anyway just to be safe.

[troyvcd1]

If you are using the professional beta it is very buggy and just sucks. I have never had good luck putting precise chapter points with dvdlab. I always just import them in at 5 min intervals and dont have any problems. I am using the non professional dvdlab 1.3.

[pijetro]

Oops, troyvcd beat me to the post..
That would be the most obvious answer.
I'm using one of the earlier DVDLab versions..Never had a problem..

[cdcox]

I am also using non pro ver 1.3 I am only on the trial until I am sure I want to spend the money. Of which I am coming to a verdict, currently compiling a new dvd with new chapter points in the same areas with no sound file on the movie. I am currious to see if the come out in the correct spot. If they do, I will then add the ac3 audio and recompile. I will let ya know.

Well I just finished with the compile of a dvd with menus and menu music all 10 chapter points and left the ac3 audio of the movie out and the chapter points are still not in the correct position that I place them in. Chapters 1-3 still start correctly however starting at chapter 4 it is wrong, when selected it goes to about the middle of chapter 3. The trial has 17 days left
I hate learning new software

[FOO]

Try resetting all the timestamps in the mpegs with restream
before letting DVDlab have them.
The first few DVDlab versions had horrible bugs with timing
maybe it still does

[pijetro]

One step at a time...
1) Mux your .m2v and .ac3 with BBmpeg, or whatever other tool you prefer. If it's wrong at this point, ya can't blame DVDlab..

2) I'd recheck, and perhaps re encode the .AC3 with FFmpegu..Not dolby certified, but works for most players..This would be my next try.

On a side note, sometimes DVDLab buttons become stubborn, so right click over each one, and manually check the chapter point..
Of course, just so that there's no remnants of previous project files created, click "New", and start reassembling...

[cdcox]

pijetro wrote

) Mux your .m2v and .ac3 with BBmpeg, or whatever other tool you prefer. If it's wrong at this point, ya can't blame DVDlab..

The m2v and ac3 are imported as two seperate elements into dvdlab and then dvdlab compiles the vob files. Isn't that the mux? besides if you import a mpeg2 into dvdlab it recommends to demux? So what you suggest is this?
1. make m2v and wav with tmpgenc
2. convert wav to ac3 with tmpgenc ac3 encoder
3. mux those two together with BBmpeg
4. import to dvdlab and DO NOT let it demux?

It's starting to add way to many steps for this. I currently use DVD Complete, however it does not accept ac3, but to use dvdlab with ac3 I just added 2 more steps in creating a DVD?
Then still need to create an iso of the video and mount it to test the buttons and menus, where as DVD complete has its own simulator.

Let me add this and see what you say.
This video is 1.5 hrs in length but consistes of 10 different shorter clips.
It is edited in premiere and between all the shorter clips, I made 5 sec of black screen before the title of the next clips, this is where the chapter points are being set.
Frames should be frames whether they are video or a black screen, I wonder if the black with no video what so ever is throwing dvdlab off???

I know I could probably encode all 10 clips as their own movies and have 10 different movies menus and link the end of 1 clip to the next clip rather than going back to the menu, however if I film a wedding and the total length is 2hr, how do I know it is going to handle it properly?

[racer-x]

cdcox wrote:

pijetro wrote
Quote:
) Mux your .m2v and .ac3 with BBmpeg, or whatever other tool you prefer. If it's wrong at this point, ya can't blame DVDlab..

pijetro was refering to mux the m2v and ac3 so that you could test it in a software player to see if it is in sync. That way, if it isn't, then you can rule out DVD-Lab as the problem. Another way is to use Media Player Clasic. If your m2v and ac3 files have the same name, just drag the m2v into MPC and it will play both.

I've never had any of the issues you're experiencing and I've authored videos that were 3 hrs long. I've set chapter points in black frames with no problems. It could very well be that your video and/or audio is not compliant.

You can build a "Test Compile" with dvd-lab to test your menus.

[cdcox]

I will check my tmpgenc settings tonight to see if anything got bumped out of sequence, however I encoded the m2v and wav the way I have always done in the past and not had problems. I will double check though. I will also try media player classic to see if the m2v and ac3 are in sync. I will also try to compile the dvd with dvd complete with the same m2v and wav file I used in dvdlab, that also gave me problems and see if it comes out correct.

I did notice and forgot to mention that the m2v file is about 6 sec longer than the wav or ac3 as reported by dvdlab?

[pijetro]

cdcox wrote:

It is edited in premiere

Alrighty then, if that's the case, are u exporting the wave off of the same project timeline??

Zoom in between each clip, and check that there's no gaps. After that, go to the endpoint of your Video, and make sure that the audio is snapped to the end of the video..
I believe Alt/double click above the video clips brings your work area to the end of the movie.
When you export, export only the work area, and not the entire timeline..
I'll assume you're doing this already though..I'd remove any markers from the video stream for good measurement (since it might be cosindered a chapter point)...
Therefore, encode the .M2V file, and regardless of the audio that Tmpgenc picks up, save a separate .WAV file from your timeline, and use this to compress to .AC3...

It's a shot in the dark...

[andkiich]

TMPGENc has never really had good success with AC3 audio, and the plugin they have is relatively new.

I'd also try encoding the audio to AC3 with BeSweet or even to just regular MP2 and see if the sync issue still persists.

[cdcox]

Ok I came home and downloaded media player classic and opened the m2v and ac3 file and they are in pefect sync. I jumped all over the video and it stays in sync.

I then open the video_ts folder created with dvdlab and when I go to chapter points they are off sync after chapter 4. Doesn't this show that dvdlab is getting it off when it compiles?

I also noticed this, That when I go to the title menu and clip the play all button, mpc reports that the video is over 2 hours long? I am going to start from scratch with the avi.

pijetro
What I have always done in premiere is this. When I export to avi it is the project not the time line. Then I had tmpgenc make m2v and wav, it was this wav that I made the ac3 with. I also had timeline markers which I have now removed and am in the process of reexporting the avi.
As far as gaps in the timline, there is no audio under the black video that I intent to set the chapter point at, I have done this is the past with dvd complete and had no problems, I would think it would be exported as no sound but the full audio kept in tack, I could be wrong and if this does not work I will add some kind of audio and just turn it down. I will probably be up late again so I will post back. I will probably have tmpgenc do a fast encode to test and if it works will reencode at slower whilst I sleep.
The battle goes on and I thank all of you for your input.
As I stated earlier, I really like dvdlab and want to buy it if I can figure out what I did wrong. And believe me, I really hope IT IS something I DID.

[anzimike]

I notice that you have TMPGEnc ac-3 plug-in. Do you also have TMPGEnc DVD Author(TDA)? If so I would try this. Import m2v and wav to TDA. Set chapter points. Go to global settings and select reencoe audio as ac-3, then make menus and render project. I have both DVD lab and TDA and found TDA to be very easy and stable at inserting chapters. Dvd lab is happier importing chapters at specified intervals as Troyvcd1 pointed out, or importing original chapters from commercial dvd. If you don't have tda there is a fully functioonal trial, (though I don't know if the trial will work with the ac-3 plug-in). The menus are not as versatile as dvd lab, but you will at least end up with a useable dvd

[pijetro]

Without wasting too much time, try this...

Again, take the .Wav file, and compress it with FFmpegui..
Recompilate the two files (.m2v and .ac3), and see if this works...

The only thing that could be wrong with your .m2v file, is a timecode issue. But i don't think the Tmpgenc has this problem (unlike CCE)..

As far as gaps in the timline, there is no audio under the black video

All i meant was, make sure that you ripple delete any possible space between video clips. As for the audio, i simply meant, roll edit to snap to the end of the video clip, so that the endpoints of both video and audio match (keep your snap on). It's at this point, i would do a separate Export of audio..
If you're using Premiere 6.5 or higher, u should give the built in Main Concept encoder a try....Saves you the headache of saving a separate .AVI....

As far as chapter points, i never did them outside of DVDLab..

[cdcox]

pijetro
I'm using 6.0 but when you said

I'd remove any markers from the video stream for good measurement (since it might be cosindered a chapter point)...

I remembered reading about this when I was thinking about buying adobe dvd authoring software, you actually make the chapter points in premiere with the timeline markers if I understood it correctly. This is the first project that I can remember that I used timeline markers in to mark all the different clips so I could find them easily. I did not remove the markers when I exported the first avi. I am redoing the avi now and have removed all the timeline markers, maybe tmpgenc read the timeline markers somehow and dvdlab had a confilict with the chapter points I was trying to make???? I hope. I'll post back in the morning with hopefully great news, but that is the first thing that made sense to me.

anzimike
I did try TDA and I like DVD lab better and you are correct about the trial not being able to use ac3, which stinks too, they should allow you to try every aspect of the software. Of course I already forked out the $ for the ac3 encoder because they don't offer a trial of that. I worse comes to worse I could use the trial again on another pc to test more throughly?
Just a thought

[cdcox]

I am very happy to report that after removing timline markers and reexporting the avi from premiere and doing everything else the same way that EVERYTHING WORKS CORRECTLY. Thank you very much for all your help.