JVC Recorder Sync issue (revisited)

[ejai]

Since the sync issue has been brought up in this forum I've been doing many tests with the JVC to find out if there is really a problem with the sync.

My findings are there is a slight sync issue with the JVC recorder. I made several identical recordings using the E50 and the the JVC and if you look reallllll close you will notice the lips don't sync up with the audio on the JVC captures. Yet the E50 clips are perfect.

The difference is so small that most people may not notice it, but I did. Just to make sure I wasn't seeing things I had four of my friends check out the clips and give me their opinions. The verdict was 3 saw the problem and 1 didn't. Yet all felt it was so minor that it would not make a difference.

Because of my past experiences with sync issues (VCD computer days) I am extremely sensitive to A/V sync.

One of the earlier posts spoke on this subject and everyone felt he was talking out the side of his head, but I agree with him. I noticed it the third day I got the machine but thought it was so minor that is wasn't worth mentioning.

I will still continue to use the JVC becasue the quality is awesome but like with anything man makes, there is sure to be a slight malfunction.

If anyone else has seen or think they have seen this sync issue with the JVC recorder I would love to hear your story.

Just my opinion, .

[kabanero]

ejai,

What was your source and what inputs?

Do you get this sync issue on every source, like VHS, satellite, DV, and on what inputs, like S-Video, Composite, or FireWire?

[ejai]

I used satellite and vhs tapes for testing. I used s-video as my primary input source. I was using composite when I first noticed the problem. During the recording session the preview is perfectly in sync even when viewing it through the JVC.

Only when I play it back after recording (after finalizing) do I see the slight timing offset. Like I said earlier it's not that noticable at first and some areas seem to be in full sync while others seem a bit off.

From my judgement there is no consistancy with the sync. The person that wrote the post that brought up this issue said he experienced syncing off by a second. I personally have not seen the timing off by a second.

From what I can tell the sound is behind the video by at least half a sec on some captures. I've been trying to convince my self that maybe I'm just being to picky, but it's funny that I've never noticed anything like this with the Panasonic recorders (and I own 2 of them E30 and E50).

I'm just trying to make sure that I'm not going mad . I will test it with cable tonight and see what I get.

[tag]

Haven't noticed any sync issues whatsoever with my M10S recordings. I'll keep an eye on this one but so far I've experienced nothing anomalous.

[ejai]

I am thankful for any response, I'm only trying to see if my findings are what others have experienced.

[lordsmurf]

I think I've abused mine for my than 100 recordings of 30 minutes to 4 hours each. Not seen a sync problem of any kind.

[ejai]

There is one thing that I have noticed that also has me picky about this situation. I did a test with a vhs that has a very bad drop out section in the tape that will give most capture devices a lot for trouble keeping the sync. My computer capture card was never able to sync this clip perfectly due to the drop out portion of the video.

I made a 2 minute copy using both machines close to the area of the drop out and after the spot. In other words the first minute is fine and the next 20 seconds is the drop out section, and the last 40 seconds is fine again.

- Both machines stayed in sync showing no signs of being thrown off the perfect sync which was established at the being of the the 2 minute clip.

- I then used Ulead's DVD Workshop 2 to copy the dvd video taken by both machines (E50 and JVC) to the computer for editiing.

- The E50's clip played fine all the way through even after the drop out section, it maintained perfect A/V sync.

- The JVC clip started out good but onced it passed the drop out section of the clip the rest of the A/V was noticeably out of sync by at least a second.

I am sure of one thing and that is that both machines sync audio/video differently.

I was able to still make a good copy of the video using the JVC by recording it as a dvd-r and finalizing it. It played perfectly as long as I didn't try to copy it to the computer, yet the E50's clip had no problem when transfered to the computer.

Strange....

[ejai]

I think I've abused mine for my than 100 recordings of 30 minutes to 4 hours each. Not seen a sync problem of any kind.

Nothing I've written thus far is to turn anyone away from this great recorder. Since one earlier post brought out the same findings I noticed, I decided to inquire to see if only two of us have experienced this issue.

Still I like this machine and will continue to use it for most of my duplicating projects.

[lordsmurf]

Hmmm....

I use a TBC and JVC 9800 as the source for bad VHS tapes. So it's a corrected signal before the DRM10S sees it.

Maybe this is the problem?

After all, a DVD recorder is simply a capture card in a box of its own. It'll be susceptible to bad signal just the same.

This is why they're meant to be used on high quality sources only. Low quality sources can give trouble.

You think this is the case?



... I've actually had a LOT of frustration recently from bad AC3 audio files on the Panasonics. The ONLY DVDs I get in here for "repair" are discs copied with DVDXCOPY (why this used on home movies, no idea) and then Panasonic discs. Seriously, put me in the room with one of the Panasonic engineers. Lock the doors, leave me some brass knuckles, and come back in 10 minutes. AV sync is a problem I had when trying to edit, or even rip off the Panasonic files. I was almost foaming at the mouth last week.

[spiderman2k1]

I have seen Sync issue's on DTV once watching Star Trek on Spike TV. Try another TV station just to be safe. I have the Panasonic E80 and it has a TBC in it. And I can record any bad tape I have with no problem's. My Dazzle 2 would have problem with Sync issue's ATI would have picture problem's. With some old tape's I had to use my Samsung world wide VCR to send out PAL-M and record in Pal-M then I would use TMPG to encode back to NTSC. Now if I want to use ATI AIW for Video soap I run the VCR to the Panasonic E80 so the TBC can fix some problem's. And the ATI AIW work's great.

"ejai" take your VCR hook it up to the E50 then hook up the JVC to the E50. See if the TBC in the E50 will fix the problem so the JVC can capture that bad VHS tape with no sync issue's.

[ejai]

I have 2 TBC devices: Datavideo's TBC 1000 and AVS 8710. I haven't tried them. Never thought about it, I will give it a try.

Thanks for the suggestions. 8)

[zorankarapancev]

I have 2 TBC devices: Datavideo's TBC 1000 and AVS 8710

Which one do you like better?

[ejai]

I'm sorry, the proper name is AVT-8710 and I like it better because it doesn't blurr the video like TBC 1000. The picture quality is more sharper also the TBC 1000 sometimes makes the video look worst than the original. In some cases the video has more jittery movements with the TBC 1000 than without.

I purchased the TBC 1000 first, but when I noticed these things and found others were noticing the same thing I decided to try another device. What I like most about he AVT-8710 is features not only is a TBC but it enables you to set brightness, contrast, tint, sharpness and color. This tiny device can fit in the palm of your hand.

The AVT-8710 does have one shortcoming and that is if you plug into composite in and composite out you will notice noise in the video. This also happens if you hook up the svideo in and svideo out the problem continues to happen.

The only way around this is to use the composite in on the AVT-8710 and then set the video out using the svideo output to your dvd recorder. In other words "MIX IT UP", mix up the input and outputs and the video will clear up. I told this to someone awhile back and it worked for them too.

[zorankarapancev]

Thank you ejai.

[broadway]

The AVT-8710 does have one shortcoming and that is if you plug into composite in and composite out you will notice noise in the video. This also happens if you hook up the svideo in and svideo out the problem continues to happen.

The only way around this is to use the composite in on the AVT-8710 and then set the video out using the svideo output to your dvd recorder. In other words "MIX IT UP", mix up the input and outputs and the video will clear up. I told this to someone awhile back and it worked for them too.

won't we be losing the advantage of s-video if we have go s-video to composite?

[ejai]

No you won't because the device has a sharpen feature that will allow for sharpening the image to any degree you wish. Be careful with the sharpening setting because if you add too much you will create noise that looks almost as bad as the original hookup.

I use it with great results.

[ejai]

I've done more testing with the svideo input and have found that there is a slight sync issue with these inputs. I tried recording the movie "Once Bitten" from DTV using my svideo setup and at the same time I was recording the same show using the E30 using another DTV receiver in another room.

Again the recording from the E30 showed perfect sync. As before the JVC was off a little. I used one scene from the movie to really analyze the sync, and that was the scene where the chauffeur was tapping the glass with a spoon. On the E30 the hits were perfect and on the JVC the hits were slightly out of sync.

While I was recording from the receiver in my office I switch the Telivision's viewing options from input 1 to input 2 so that I could see if the signal coming into the JVC had a sync problem. The video was in perfect sync, it was only out of sync when I switch back to viewing the show through the JVC.

There is some good news that I found by using one of the suggestions given me from one of the earlier posts. I tried different input options. I hooked the DTV receiver to the JVC using the coaxial cable input using Ch 3 and whola my next recordings were in perfect sync.

I've switch to several different channels and the video is in perfect sync. Yet if I start using the svideo or composite the problem resurfaces.

[spiderman2k1]

"ejai" try this test hook up the DTV to the E30 with S-video then out put the E30 to the JVC with S-video and see if you have a sync problem.

[stimpy1864]

I started the whole JVC sync issue when the first disc I recorded had an awful about 1 sec audio sync problem. I recorded the exact same tape the next day and it was fine. I think it may have caused by a speck of dust on the disc I used the first time. I inspected the first disc closely and noticed a small dark spot about half way thru the disc. I am sure the JVCs are excellent units but to my eyes I don’t see any huge improvement over other brands that others seem to see.

[ejai]

I'm still experiencing some sync issues, but I will try your idea of throughly cleaning the disks. What bothers me is that some disks come out fine while others have probems.

[ejai]

I haven't always had this problem, maybe if I can put the unit back to its default factory settings. If anyone knows how to do this please respond. I did try the initialize procedure using the power on and stop button, I still have the same settings I made not the factory default.

If someone knows how please let me know.

[kabanero]

ejai,

What do you have as source when you get sync issue?

I have one international channel from Dish Network and it out of sync all the time. When I called Dish they told me nothing they could do, it was coming from there already with bad sync.

[ejai]

I'm using Direct TV with the svideo hookup

[tag]

........put the unit back to its default factory settings. If anyone knows how to do this please respond.......

Scoured the manual and then the JVC web site.......wound up with nothing.

I emailed JVC tech support requesting a response outlining the reset procedure. Hopefully, they'll respond.

[tommyoz]

ejai,
Could it be possible that you just have a defective machine? No one else seams to be having that problem. Even the guy who started the other thread came back to say that it was the disc.

I did not own this machine bit I did own the DVD recorder/VCR recorder DR-MV1S combo and i'm sure it was the same machine with just the added VCR. I looked back at the recordings I made with it and did not see any problem either. Good luck.

[ejai]

Thanks for the responses and the help. I was thinking the same thing about it maybe being defective. I did try the cleaning the disk option and I tried to set all the settings back to what I remembered the default settings were. I've made 3 recordings since I made the adjustments and all have been in perfect sync.

I am still testing it. I still have another week to send it back for a new one if I get the same problem again. I am very glad that the person who mentioned the sync issue has worked it out, that makes me feel better about my purchase and that I am sure I will figure this out. So far so good.

[tag]

I did try the cleaning the disk option and I tried to set all the settings back to what I remembered the default settings were.

A second scouring of the manual revealed that the machine has a memory backup time of 60 minutes. In conjunction with that spec, the possibility of a power outage is mentioned.

I assume that means the M10S would reset itself to the factory default settings if unplugged for longer than an hour.

[ejai]

Thanks tag, I did just that. So far so good I've made several recordings and all have been in sync. I don't exactly know what went wrong and why it is working fine now.

Who cares? I'm just happy with the results. I can finally close this thread with a happy ending.

[ejai]

One last thing that I left out of the earlier post, I used my Datavideo TBC 1000 to sync the signal. After noticing that there is no TBC in the JVC I knew that was the problem. As posted earlier the Direct TV channels sometimes have trouble keeping sync on some shows.

I plugged up the TBC 1000 that I had in the closet (because the Panasonic brands have TBC built in) and that's all she wrote. I haven't experienced another sync problem since.

Thanks for helping everyone.

[lordsmurf]

I saw some synch errors several days ago ... but it was the raw cable signal. I booked it across the house to another tv and saw a huge delay of like 1 sec on the channel. Oh well. Garbage in, garbage out. I've been paying extra close attention to the JVC, but nothing wrong with it.