DeCSS victory!!

[dphirschler]

I just read this. I hope I am not posting old news.

"DeCSS, round 3

In a serious blow to the DVD Copy Control Association, the MPAA and top studios, in a unanimous ruling a California appeals court overturned a preliminary injunction against Web site operator Andrew Bunner that had barred him from posting DeCSS on his Web site.

..." <snip> Go to http://www.dvdfile.com/news/views/editors_desk/2001/11_06.html for the whole story.


Darryl

[jwhitlow]

Overall, I am in favor of the right to post such things. I think it keeps the security people on their toes.
However, I personally have never understood why people want to decode the DVDs. The main purpose that I have seen this used for it to copy the data to the hard drive & decode it and reencode it to VCD or SVCD. Why would anyone want to take the time and effort to take a high quality DVD that will play on all DVD players and put it onto multiple SVCDs on CDR at lower quality that will play on about half of the players on the market? Considering that most DVD movies are very reasonably priced, I just don't get it.

[Grativity]

The reason someone would want to do this is new DVD is $30 - 45 CND, the cost of renting and and copying to (s)vcd is $5 for rental and $1 for the disc, you do the math

[adam]

True Grativity, but then that completely undermines the reasons why DeCSS was deemed legal.

dpirschler, no its not really old news, happened several days ago but I'm glad you posted it. I was wondering when someone else would notice since its a pretty important event.

[Sefy]

You are all appear to be forgeting the reason DeCSS was released in the first place, to provide Linux the ability to play DVD's which was impossible till then!

So DVD Playback will not be solely to Microsoft Windows, but will be able to be created on other platforms such as Linux and others.

[vitualis]

Read the actual contents of the decision. It is hardly a victory.

All it says is that the temporary injunction on the release of the DeCSS source code has been lifted on the grounds that it can be considered an expression of free speech. It specifies that compiled code would not (so a compiled version of DeCSS is still illegal and one would also then presume that it's application would be too).

Regards.

[vitualis]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-11-12 07:44:33, jwhitlow wrote:
However, I personally have never understood why people want to decode the DVDs.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

The point is that it doesn't matter if you understand it or not. The issue is whether or not it is legal.

Say I wanted to get a small video clip as part of an educational presentation. For anything else (e.g., audio CD), I can extract a small part of the content and I would be protected under the "fair use" provisions in most countries. That is, that act would not constitute a breach of copyright.

However, with DVDs, although the fair use provisions are still in place, I can't even get to the content without using tools to circumvent the digital protection on the disc. And, with the DMCA, the very act of doing this is now illegal.

That is, you Americans are LOSING your right to fair use by a new layer of technological impediments and the legislative protection of those impediments.

Regards.

[Lartrak]

I make VCDs to play in my portable VCD player. It can not play DVDs. Since it plays xVCDs fine, I can fit many things onto a single disc (or, if I ever get around to it, fit 5 or 6 Simpsons/Family Guy/etc episodes on a single disc).

[jwhitlow]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-11-12 08:53:44, Grativity wrote:
The reason someone would want to do this is new DVD is $30 - 45 CND, the cost of renting and and copying to (s)vcd is $5 for rental and $1 for the disc, you do the math
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

That is kind of what I figured. The reason most people are adamant about DeCSS being published has nothing to do with fair use or freedom of speech. They want it as a tool to steal.

[vitualis]

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On 2001-11-12 19:54:13, jwhitlow wrote:
The reason most people are adamant about DeCSS being published has nothing to do with fair use or freedom of speech. They want it as a tool to steal.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Perhaps true in a sense, but does that make it illegal? CD burners can be used to steal too, but they are not illegal.

The real issue is whether or not legal protection of digital protection methods is FAIR when it effectively circumvents the fair use considerations.

The supposed "spirit" of the digital protection is the prevention of piracy and loss of profits (i.e., protection of intellectual property rights), not to dismantle the consumer right to "fair use". However, it is increasingly clear that although the records and movie companies are pushing this view to the legislators, the real motive to limit and control consumer consumption of the product and to maximise profits.

Regards.

[ThighMaster]

jwhitlow, "steal" is such a harsh word and personally I find it very offensive.

Think of it this way...
Intellectual property is just that, no matter what media it is on, be it a Video Tape, Broadcast Programs, Cable TV, or a DVD. Protection of that media via any method (a simple copyright message to more advanced methods) is all the same to me and serve the same purpose. Therefore the same rules should apply to all media.

If someone can record a TV show to watch it some other time then I don't see why they can't copy a rented DVD for the same reason. When I rented it, I did pay to view it at my convenience. It is only stealing if you intend to re-distribute it and make money off of someone elses intellectual property without permission and without paying royalties. People who WANT to steal will find ways to do so no matter what anyone says or does. So why stop the law abiding consumer from enjoying their purchase despite how they choose to do so.

What good is a VCR (Video Cassette RECORDER) if the record button doesn't work. Similarly what good is a DVD device if it cannot be used to the consumers benefit.

[jwhitlow]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-11-13 02:08:05, ThighMaster wrote:
jwhitlow, "steal" is such a harsh word and personally I find it very offensive.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

My apologies if I offended you.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
If someone can record a TV show to watch it some other time then I don't see why they can't copy a rented DVD for the same reason. When I rented it, I did pay to view it at my convenience. It is only stealing if you intend to re-distribute it and make money off of someone else's intellectual property without permission and without paying royalties.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Extremely valid argument! And, last I checked, you are protected under the law in this regard. My information is very old, but last time I checked, you had the right to rent a movie and make a personal use copy for yourself.
However, I would like to argue that this is probably not the intention of a lot of the people that are using the DeCSS. They are probably renting the movies and making copies for all of their friends and family, which is not legal.

[dphirschler]

I like to get a live concert DVD (for example "Styx - Return to Paradise&quot, rip the audio to make a live audio CD, then grab screen captures to make cover artwork. This I consider fair use even though I am not buying the commercially released audio cd (which by the way is missing some tracks). I am buying the DVD and using its contents for my own enjoyment. I need the DVD ripping tools in order to do this.


Darryl

[beta72]

Perhaps a little of topic.
Does anybody know what happened to the guy from Norway (Mr J) who broke the dvd-protection?

[Hateslife]

Renting a movie and copying it is quite different from recording off of TV... I think recording off of TV may be fair use. Copying a rental is definitely not.

When you rent a movie, you pay for the right to watch it for a certain number of days. What's the point of copying it if you only have the right to watch it for a few days?

It's clearly illegal. Unquestionably.

Converting your audio DVD to cd is not illegal, it's fair use: you just want it in a more convenient format. That's why it's important that we have DeCSS: so they can't trample on our rights to fair use. The right to quote a book, make a tape, and sample a cd.

[vitualis]

Exactly.

Let's ignore all the ILLEGAL activities for the moment. ANY tool can be used for illegal activities.

Say I BUY a DVD. Now, as part of a critique I'm making, I want to get a small video snipet in my Powerpoint presentation. However, for me to be able to access the data on the DVD, I must use some tool to get around the CSS encryption.

Now, what I am doing is fully within the bounds of "Fair Use", but me using a tool to remove CSS would be illegal under DMCA. However, such a tool is necessary or else I couldn't have gotten the video in the first place.

Regards.

[leebo]

"They are probably..."

Not a valid argument. If it were, O.J. would be on death row.

Personally, I'm against anyone who would sell me something and then continue to try to control my use of it.

I agree with a previous poster who said something to the effect that CSS only stops honest people. Real pirates will find a way to mass produce. The main problem hollywood has had is in China, and there's nothing they've been able to do about it.

They fought home VCR's too. Had they won that battle, many of todays studios would be out of business.

[DaBigPimp]

Decess is an awsome 1st generation dvd ripper. Quite old but the source code can be used in newer versions to supply for the use of copying new 2nd generation as I like to call it, rippers. Dvd's are Digital Video Disks. As in the name of the dvd it states Disks if you can not coppy them and decess is illegal why are there dvd righters and dvd disks. If it were illegal certainly the counsumer would not be eligable to purchase these wrighters. I mean if someone invented it and they are legal, obveously people can use them in their own self use of whatever they want. To tell you the truth I dont think decess should be illegal. If it were then we would be taking away personal freedoms protected by the U.S. constituion. But in the same general scense the producers of dvd's also have constitunal but not woldwide rights. So I guess it a fair arguement. But i believe if they did not want their material being copyied they should not submit it for sale or, for rent or any other personal use on the general market...


ps Sefy you are the collest guy in the world

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DaBigPimp on 2001-11-14 11:22:30 ]</font>