DVB to DVD problems...

[slingky]

I used latest version of program DishExtract to transfer my PVR content to my hard drive.

They're muxed by the software and very good quality.

I used womble mpeg2VCR to cut the files.

They all play well in PowerDVD.

Here start the troubles...

Files are 704x480 (15mbps bitrate)

I tried lot of softwares...

DVD Architect and Ulead DVD Workshop 2
(both give out of sync vob files, + reencode was necessary)

TmpgEnc DVD Author and DVD-Lab
(no re-encode, so fast! but when there is movement (more frames by sec) i see like shadows or blurry images...weird !

Please, do i have to patch the files ? think not cause they were taken by these softwares...

Maybe i have to reencode the files to 720x480 ?

I tried to play the resulted DVD in my Xbox.
(MS Dashboard, DVD-X2 and Xbox Media Center all give same results)

Please help !

[flaninacupboard]

the 704x480 is not a problem, that's in DVD specs. 15mbps is a big problem, dvd max is 9.8mbps. grab bitrate viewer and examine the files, if it peaks above 9.8mbps, you'll need to re-encode.

[slingky]

it's the weird thing cause;

the files max. bitrate us like between 5-6 mbps
and avg between 3-4mbps...

so what can cause all this to happen ?

I made DVD with (DVD Decrypter + DVD Shrink), from DivX files and they are all perfect.

So what can me the problem with these DVB files ???

[pyrohydra]

You don't necessarily need to re-encode.

Lots of DVB streams (and DSS as well) have a bitrate of 15 mbps in their headers. This doesn't mean that the streams actually get close to using that bitrate, that's just the theoretical maximum they put on the stream (I guess...I don't know another way to describe it).

You may try patching the streams to 8 mbps with DVDPatcher before you author. I'm not sure if this will really help, but it's worth a try. IIRC TMGEnc DVD Author wouldn't accept my streams if they had 15mbps in the header, so I patch mine as a matter of course. Maybe TMPGEnc DVD Author thinks that your bitrate is too high and is re-encoding? Some lame authoring apps will do this, though I'm not sure if TMPGEnc does.

Once you are done authoring, you can patch the VTS files back to 15 mbps if you wish. I always do this, but I'm not sure if it makes any difference.

Good luck.

P.S. While I was looking for more information on extraction from the Dish PVRs, it struck me that there seems to be an almost utter lack of a community dealing with this, at least compared to the DirecTV ones. If anyone can point me to a place that discusses Dish PVR extraction I'd appreciate it.

[slingky]

this is the place for DishNetwork PVRs....

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dishrip/

P.S. note that you will need to register a yahoo account
(like hotmail ones, they are free !)

Download the latest version of DishExtract

You will be able to transfer recordings from PVR to PC HDD.


If you need more info, just ask, i will do my best to help!

[slingky]

Latest version of TmpegEnc DVD Author accept files with 15mbps bitrate but warns you that this can be a problem !

But i tried DVDPatcher in the past, i will give it a second chance to see if TmpgEnc DVD Author will output differently.

Plus, TmpgEnc DVD Author and DVD-Lab were the only tools that didn't re-encode my files, it's why i don't understand why the output suffers !?

[ctech2004]

I use Mpeg-VCR with DVD-Lab and the only problem is the GOP sizes, DVD patcher works well, thats strange you loose quality, It looks better in my player than on my computer, try sanning the file with Mpeg-vcr to see if timecodes are right

[pyrohydra]

Latest version of TmpegEnc DVD Author accept files with 15mbps bitrate but warns you that this can be a problem !

But i tried DVDPatcher in the past, i will give it a second chance to see if TmpgEnc DVD Author will output differently.

Plus, TmpgEnc DVD Author and DVD-Lab were the only tools that didn't re-encode my files, it's why i don't understand why the output suffers !?

Do you see the same problem when you play back the DVD in your computer? If so, could you post a frame from the video to give an example of what you're experiencing.

I have DirecTV and extract from the DirecTiVo. However, the problem you describe sounds familiar, and I only encountered it when I ran my DTV streams through mpeg2vcr's GOP repair routine. You see, the DTV streams have out-of-standard GOP sizes, and some authoring programs complain about this. I was trying to fix this using the GOP repair, but this seemed to cause the image to get blurry (as well as made the file size bigger). I don't do this anymore, since TMPGEnc will accept my files as is, but warn about GOP sizes.

Hmm, right before I posted this I saw that ctech also posted something about GOP sizes. Maybe you could try using something other than mpeg2vcr to cut it. I use the freeware TyTool, and although it's really made for streams extracted from Tivos, it should work fine on any .mpg file.

[slingky]

don't think it's related to womble cause i remember that i try to make a dvd directly from the 1st mpeg file (without cutting it) and it was the same result.

it's why i suspected the DishExtract software, but their community keeps saying that their software is nearly perfect and there is not re-encode and blablabla.... they say i do something wrong, but really don't know where !

i will try the scanning in womble to see if there is gop problems...but TmpegEnc DVD Author doesn't warn about gop sizes ! so don't think it's that but worth a try...

[pyrohydra]

don't think it's related to womble cause i remember that i try to make a dvd directly from the 1st mpeg file (without cutting it) and it was the same result.

it's why i suspected the DishExtract software, but their community keeps saying that their software is nearly perfect and there is not re-encode and blablabla.... they say i do something wrong, but really don't know where !

i will try the scanning in womble to see if there is gop problems...but TmpegEnc DVD Author doesn't warn about gop sizes ! so don't think it's that but worth a try...

Actually, all that I have read about Dish (including the Yahoo group you linked, thanks for that btw) seems to state that they mostly transmit 544x480 video, with the occasional 640x480. So I am not sure how you're getting 704x480. Maybe the program you're using to extract is changing the headers, or perhaps even re-encoding?

I can download the software you mention and look at it (even though I don't have Dish I'd like to learn how it works), but perhaps someone else who extracts from the Dish PVR (such as ctech) will be able to answer your question better.

[slingky]

when i play in powerdvd from hdd, it's ok and no blurry or shadow.

then i burn with nero then i try to play in powerdvd;
in starts then stops immediatly

then i play it in 3 different softwares on the Xbox and i get the result i mentioned above; blurry or little shadows in actions scenes!

[TBoneit]

a. There are Dishrip yahoo groups that support both the 501 to 510 and the Dishplayer 7100/7200 PVRs, Dishplayer Explorer suppors the 7100 /7200 models of PVR.

Sounds like he's using the -dvd switch for extraction? I've heard that switch patches the whole file.

544 by 480 and 640 by 480 are what I see. I tend to use DPVE on my 7100 drive with the sync audio checked.

I patch 1st header only to 720by480,also resets max bitrate, add to tmpgenc dvd author, patch back to original resolution and edit in DVD author. They play back fine on my Sony and Apexes. The only problem is that FF and Rev aren't as good due to the nonstandard GOP size.

Works for me.

Cheers

[slingky]

i think i found something...

ok, the dvd i created is nearly perfect now !

i tested it in 2 dvd players; 1 rca and 1 jvc
it played correctly without the problems i encounter with the xbox...

what i don't understand is that on the xbox, i tried 3 different softwares and all 3 were producing the overlapping frames or blurry images...

so now i know i have 2 choices:
a) buy another standalone dvd player
b) re-encode the files...

I choose the option B)

but i need some help...

Could someone just point me to the best way to convert my dvb 704x480 files to 720x480 truly DVD compatible files...

i tried TmpgEnc and it gives me this error when i try to load the file ;
"file ... can not open, or unsupported"

so whats the best software and method... thanks.

[ctech2004]

I would use MainConept Encoder, I havn't had a problem with my DVB to DVD, but I am going from 544x480 to 720x480, what are you not keeping at 704x480?, its a legit resolution.

[slingky]

because my xbox doesn't play 704x480 very well !

(even 3 different softwares on it;
MS Dashboard, DVD-X and Xbox Media Center)

[pyrohydra]

Maybe your files are not actually 704x480. See below..

a. There are Dishrip yahoo groups that support both the 501 to 510 and the Dishplayer 7100/7200 PVRs, Dishplayer Explorer suppors the 7100 /7200 models of PVR.

Sounds like he's using the -dvd switch for extraction? I've heard that switch patches the whole file.

544 by 480 and 640 by 480 are what I see. I tend to use DPVE on my 7100 drive with the sync audio checked.

[slingky]

my last effort was to re-encode the DVB 704x480 files to DVD 720x480 by using Mainconcept Mpeg Encoder 1.4.2

then i burned and tried again in my xbox...

same results...

ok, now i'm trying to re-encode but i changed the default settings to include deinterlacing ?

is it the good way ?

i will post results here.

[slingky]

i think i'm near the end now !

i chose "deinterlacing" in DVD settings of MainConcept MPEG Encoder and the result DVD plays very well in my XBOX !

nearly solved...i just need to find the good VBR settings to get max. quality for least space used...

does somebody has some settings to suggest ?

i really want more than 2hours of material on a single DVD 4.7 Gb but not too much at the cost of quality...

Thanks again...this forum is awesome !

[slingky]

could somebody also explain me whats the difference of choosing "bottom field" instead of "top field" first for;

a) field encoding
b) deinterlacing

P.S. these settings are found in the "detailed settings" of MainConcept MPEG Encoder...

i mean, may it be better or worst of choose one instead of the other in certain situation...