8mm reel to regular 8mm

[santner]

I have a Sony Digital8 Handycam Camcorder and I have some very old 8mm reel that is played on a projector. I would like to be able to take this old 8mm film and convert it into the 8mm film that is used today that you can buy at any major retailer. This way I could use my camcorder to capture that video to my computer and convert it to DVD. Has anyone done this before?

So basically I want to be able to take my old 8mm film and insert it into a case that I could buy somewhere so that my camcorder will play it.

[Capmaster]

If you don't want to spend the money on a rental, there might be plans on the web for a homemade telecine.

[thecoalman]

Nope your way off base First to set the record straight, 8mm is film, hi-8(which is what your confusing with 8mm) is analog like a VHS tape and digital 8 is well digital. Your 8mm film cannot be converted via a capture card, digital8 cam or hi-8 cam. The only way it can be done is you play it through your projector and film it preferably with your digital8 cam, it can then be transferred to your computer via firewire. This process has it's troubles though because the D* cam can sometimes capture the flicker of the frames. There was a thread discussing this you may want to do a search. This process can also be professionally done.

[santner]

Well my digital8 camcorder can play 8mm tapes. My problem is that the 8mm film that I have is meant to be played on a projector, not from a tape. So what I would like to do is take the 8mm film that I have and manually insert it into a tape that you could buy today at the store and that way I could play the tape in my camcorder and download the digital video to my computer.

Capmaster, what is a telecine. I have never heard the term before.

[Capmaster]

Well my digital8 camcorder can play 8mm tapes. My problem is that the 8mm film that I have is meant to be played on a projector, not from a tape. So what I would like to do is take the 8mm film that I have and manually insert it into a tape that you could buy today at the store and that way I could play the tape in my camcorder and download the digital video to my computer.

Capmaster, what is a telecine. I have never heard the term before.

It's basically a box with a small screen. You shine the projector on the screen and set up the camera to capture off the screen. It's used all the time by the studios to transfer from film to digital.

It can't be that hard to build one

[Cornucopia]

You're still not getting it...

2 totally incompatible formats-film (use w/cinema & photos) & videotape (use w/camcorders)

Your old reel is either 8mm or Super8mm film that comes in a cannister and is meant to be played (only) by a projector.

Your camcorder records 8mm, Hi8, and/or Digital8 videotape. Well, it may not record all 3, but it will certainly play them back.

FILM does not equal VIDEO

Literally, the only thing that 8mm film has in common with 8mm video from a technology/hardware perspective, is that they are the same width.
That's like saying, my daughter's charm bracelet is 8mm, so if I can get it to wind into the case, the camcorder will "play" it.

What you have to do is this:

1. Play the film through a projector
2. Record the projected image with your camcorder

That's it.
The whole telecine thing is just using better equipment and techniques to improve the 1-2 process above. (There are a number of threads pertaining to this)

HTH,
Scott

[santner]

Thank you. I understand, although very dissapointed because my projector is broke. Thanks for the info.

[FOO]

You guys are such wet blankets. I think he ought to stuff
some 8mm film in a cassette and try it.

Of course there will be major problems like wrong frame rate

[Capmaster]

You guys are such wet blankets. I think he ought to stuff
some 8mm film in a cassette and try it.

Of course there will be major problems like wrong frame rate

[thecoalman]

Well my digital8 camcorder can play 8mm tapes. My problem is that the 8mm film that I have is meant to be played on a projector, not from a tape. So what I would like to do is take the 8mm film that I have and manually insert it into a tape that you could buy today at the store and that way I could play the tape in my camcorder and download the digital video to my computer.

8mm film is not 8mm analog tape they are two completley different things. They just happen to be the same size.

8mm film = Is film consisting of many tanslucent pictures when played in a projector produce a moving picture.
Hi-8 = Analog footage similar to a what would be on a VHS tape but using 8mm tape.
Digital 8 = Digital footage on 8mm tape but in digital format.

Note that Digital 8 and Hi-8 use the same tape but are two different formats.

[thecoalman]

You guys are such wet blankets. I think he ought to stuff
some 8mm film in a cassette and try it.

Of course there will be major problems like wrong frame rate

Wouldn't have to worry about audio sync tho You could always drop a projector sound affect into the audio track.

[MikeV]

Santner,
You might want to check out your local Walgreens, Fox Photo, etc. some of them still offer conversions from film to VHS tape and even DVD. It will cost a little, but it may be better than trying to convert them yourself. The machines they use will keep you from getting the flicker caused by the different frame rates between film and video.

[santner]

You guys are such wet blankets. I think he ought to stuff
some 8mm film in a cassette and try it.

Of course there will be major problems like wrong frame rate


Wouldn't have to worry about audio sync tho You could always drop a projector sound affect into the audio track.

There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. I am ignorant regarding the details of 8mm, lets just be friendly and leave it at that.

[thecoalman]

Just having a little fun no harm intended. Anyhow if you get that projector working you can try taping it with your cam. I'd do a search I've seen a few other threads where others have done the very same thing.

[Capmaster]

You guys are such wet blankets. I think he ought to stuff
some 8mm film in a cassette and try it.

Of course there will be major problems like wrong frame rate


Wouldn't have to worry about audio sync tho You could always drop a projector sound affect into the audio track.

There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. I am ignorant regarding the details of 8mm, lets just be friendly and leave it at that.

You're right. That was a bit rude. I apologize

You have a legitimate issue. That Walgreen's option might be the most stress-free for you.

I have many super-8 home movies I'd like to move to DVD, but I haven't decided on how I'm going to do it yet. They're raggedy and would no doubt give the projector there kniption fits from all the cutting and splicing I did on them years ago.

[santner]

It seems that the two issues that I would have would be the flicker and the audio from the mechanical parts of the projector. If I had Matlab I could probably digitally filter that out, but as you probably can already tell I don't have a lot of money. Any free tools out there that are similar to Matlab in that you can perform digital filtering on the audio/video?

I'd like to keep this project down to a few months and I'd hate to have to break out my DSP books again.

[thecoalman]

There's no audio on those films correct? You can just remove or replace the audio track, even add some music or a voice-over describing the film if you want. Here's a fairly lenghty thread I found. https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=222267&highlight=8mm+film

[santner]

I haven't seen the film in 10 years, but I am pretty sure that I remember audio. These were actually shot in the late 70's and early 80's.

[thecoalman]

Well the audio would have to be captured somehow. Unless your projector has a audio output jack getting rid of the projector sounds would be a bitch.

If it does have a audio out you can plug it right into your cam if it has a mic jack. You could also run the audio from the projector to your computer and capture it seperatley. You would then have to add the audio track to your video using an editor, the trouble with doing it seperatley is that you would have to sync the audio and the video which would open up a whole other can of worms. But it can be done.

If you just have a few films having it done professionally might be the way to go especially considering you would have to fix your projector. Have you looked into the telecine machine Capmaster suggested?

[Cornucopia]

Regular 8mm Film doesn't even have a place for a soundtrack, so there's no way you could have audio.

Super 8mm Film does have a reserved space for optical soundtrack, so on those, you may or may not have audio.

Sounds to me like you've got Super8.

Other differences-sprocket holes are different size, but not by much.

Most good projectors have switchable gear hubs that allow for both sizes of sprockets--make sure wherever you get this transfered you've got one of these, because if you put the wrong size on, you may rip a bigger hole and make for shakier visual and more prone to breaking.

If you have a reg 8 projector (with sprocket adapter), you can play a Super8 film on it, it just won't have sound.
Make sure you use a Super8 projector if you want that sound to be retained. A number of projectors also have headphone/lineout jacks, so you can plug (with adapters) directly from projector to camcorder and skip the acoustical noise buildup.

Flicker and ways to get around it:
1. Use a type of projector that has a 24-sided prism (no flicker at all if the prism is very good! This is because, unlike most projectors that show the image and then blank while they're moving to the next image, these images are constantly on the screen. Yes there are these types of projectors)
2. Use a projector that projects at 29.97fps(NTSC) or 25fps(PAL)-no flicker. You can always change the frame rate in VirtualDub afterward.
3. Use a camcorder that records at true 24p, and a projector that projects at 24fps. Same afterward processing could be done.
4. Use a scanner to scan the frames in one-by-one, combine the series of still images with VirtualDub (or similar) at the preferred frame rate. No flicker at all but very SLOOOWWW!

All, except the last, do suffer from speed drift unless they AND the camcorder are able to be synced with Genlock. (Not likely unless you've got real good PRO equipment all around). Do it in short segments, adjust the drift, retrace for overlap, edit when done, and the drift will be taken care of.

HTH,
Scott

[iantri]

BTW, 8mm and Super 8mm film supposedly run at 18fps, but the speed can be somewhat variable with the silent 8mm film (since there was no need to have perfectly accurate timing.. no audio to sync to).

Get a projector that allows you to change the frame rate, and adjust it until you get no flicker in your image. You may also need to adjust the camera shutter speed.

After you have captured it, you should be able to use some Avisynth scripting to decimate the frame rate and change it to the appropriate speed (and have relatively smooth motion).

[santner]

Thank you to everyone for all of the info. I have learned a lot and now have a great wealth of information to fall back on.