Newbie at end of rope...

[Nilfennasion]

Okay, my question might seem stupid at first, but after trying as many different procedures and programs to copy the one disc, I am at the end of my rope, so to speak. The fact that I cannot find any information specific to the place I am in at the moment (Australia) is not helping.

Essentially, I have successfully decrypted a disc, shrunk it, and put it onto a temporary directory on my hard drive. That part is all done with. However, I cannot get any program to burn the disc so that I can play it in a standalone player. I have three Toshiba DVD players in this house at the moment, the SD-2109, the SD-1250, and the SD-1300. On the latter two, whenever I burn these files onto a DVD+RW, they simply state there is a disc error and won't play them back. Which is frustrating when I consider that my LG 4040B drive will play it back without a hitch. As will my old man's Lite-On DVD-ROM drive.

I managed to discern that one possible problem was that I wasn't burning the copy as a Book DVD-ROM. So I have searched high and low for a program that explicitly supports this. Unfortunately, when I try to burn anything using Nero 6, it gives me the following message and spits out my disc without even making a pretense of trying to burn:

"This disc is not writable
Please insert a writable disc

Disc required for the compilation: DVD
Disc type in the recorder: DVD+RW"

This is getting on my nerves, as everything I need is in place, except the ability to burn the disc! Needless to say, my discs definitely are writable, and they have nothing on them whatsoever. Needless to say, I am going to be taking my business to the very next company that releases a DVD burning program that will allow me to burn Book DVD-ROM onto a DVD+RW. Can anyone help me find one? Is there anything else I could be doing wrong?

[tompika]

Some suggestions

1. Forget about "Book DVD-ROM". The LG4040 is not capable of bitsetting

2. Get the latest firmware for better media compatibility.
rpc1.org

3. Use the latest Nero 6
Your best bet is Nero Express - DVD-Video - Put all the VOB's, IFO's, BUP's into the VIDEO_TS folder (automatically generated by Nero)

[Nilfennasion]

Okay, I have tried it in Nero Express with exactly the same result:

"This disc is not writable
Please insert a writable disc...

Disc required for the compilation: DVD
Disc type in the recorder: DVD+RW"

I already have A302 firmware in my drive, and until a later version that can be made RPC1 compliant comes out, it's staying there.

[Bob W]

Hmm just burn the disc as a "data disc", that's what I do using RecordNow Max. So use the latest free version of DVDshrink to rip and shrink the DVD then put all the generated files into a "VIDEO_TS" folder and burn that folder. The latest version of DVDshrink will generate the VIDEO_TS folder for you.

[tompika]

According to the DVD Players section your players wouldnt even play DVD+RW's (unless changing the booktype that you oviously can't) so you'd better switch to DVD-RW

https://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDnameid=1230&Search=Search&#comments
https://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDnameid=802&Search=Search&#comments
https://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDnameid=482&Search=Search&#comments

[Nilfennasion]

I've read all the player guides, so it looks like I am going -R.

Before anyone gets on my case for preferring +R/+RW exclusively, I actually went to a demo by Philips where they showed four seconds recorded on +RW and -RW. Twenty-six seconds of flickering half-frames is very hard on the eyes, to say the least. But if that's all I can get to play on these players, so be it. I would like to find out if I can use +R on something, though.

[Nilfennasion]

Hmm just burn the disc as a "data disc", that's what I do using RecordNow Max.

I've read the page about RecordNowMax. It looks like it might be worth trying, but we'll have to wait and see. I've tried using Nero with settings like Book DVD-ROM turned off and it still gives me that message, so I am strongly considering removing Nero altogether. I just hope I can use DVDDecryptor and DVDShrink without it.

[tompika]

Its a known fact that RNM wont recognize your LG4040 although you can burn DVD's with its Wizard

http://downloads.stompinc.com/support/stprnm450v.exe
http://patches.sonic.com/downloads/engine/pxEngine507.exe

[Nilfennasion]

Jeez. I've tried NTI's program, too. It refused to recognise my 4040B, too.

I've managed to burn the actual discs, oddly enough. I have two copies on DVD+RW, but I just can't get them to play on standalones. Which defeats the whole purpose for me, honestly.

[Jayhawk]

I have three Toshiba DVD players in this house at the moment, the SD-2109, the SD-1250, and the SD-1300

I can't speak to the 1250 or 1300 but I had a 2109 and it would not play DVD+R or DVD+RW. I suspect the same of the other two. I got rid of the Toshiba and bought a couple of cheap Pioneer's at Walmart for $75 each. They seem to play everything.

[Nilfennasion]

The SD-2109 won't play CD-Rs, either. Not that I care. It easily outperforms the other two for video decoding, and always has. As a matter of fact, Toshiba has never produced a better player.

I'm not likely to change players anytime soon for economic reasons, but after the ridiculous "no black bars is good" theme of many of Toshiba's adverts, you can bet your last dollar that my next player will not be a Toshiba. I have wanted for some time to upgrade to a Denon (the DVD-1600 was an awesome player), but I think my next purchase decision will be influenced by how easily I can get +R or +RW (or even DVD-RAM) to play on it.

Hopefully, they will make this a little simpler in the next few years (and not by making all recordables -R, I don't want to stare at a flickering screen for the last 29 seconds of the block that Resident Evil in PAL fits into).

[tim6661234]

Philips are in the DVD+ camp so its they would come up with some example to prove it's better but I've got to say I've recorded enough -R's (not part of either camp just my recorder only does minus) and not seen this flickering. Could you clarify?

[Nilfennasion]

There are a couple of possibilities as to why you haven't seen this flickering that I can think of:

1) You haven't watched a title to the very end, and therefore haven't seen the last thirty second block (very likely... who on Earth watches film credits anyway?).

2) What I saw only applies to material recorded by set-top/standalone recorders.

Both are equally likely, of course.

I saw this flickering twice. Once was at a Philips demo (of course), the other at an in-store demo at a Harvey Norman superstore. In the first case, it was intentional. They showed a title they had recorded onto a standalone DVD recorder, one that ran a total of eleven seconds. Eleven seconds was the video (crystal clear view of Dubbo zoo), the rest was a flickering, aliasing half-frame mess. That the DVD Consortium backs a format that does this only proves to me how little they really care for the consumer's wants or needs.

The superstore demo was outrageously funny. Essentially, it was one of those masturbatory demos designed to convince the customers that VHS is now officially dead. They showed clips from a number of films, a staff member's home video, etc etc. They'd recorded exactly 30:16 of footage. When the flickers came, the customers were literally turning away and complaining that it hurt their eyes. When explanations were asked for, the staff did their usual "ummm" and "ahhhh" routine until I butted in and told them that DVD-RW only records in 30-second blocks. The audience response was that if this was how everything they recorded would look at the end, they were sticking with VHS, so I also told them that this doesn't happen with +RW.

I think the 30-second block recording (possiblty inherent in packet-writing technology, I don't know because I'm not technically-minded) was a bad idea from the get go because nobody records in thirty-second lots. Five second blocks, maybe, but thirty, come on... The whole exercise basically adds to the public perception that +R is more like VHS tape in terms of ease, which is what people want these days next to performance.

Which, of course, also means that those of us who want to "back up" their DVD collection are going to become a minority as more people take up recordable DVD. Which is exactly what the Consortium wants.

[FOO]

The same data will be on + and - disks. Phillips is full of
shit. There will be no noticeable difference playing either
on a proper player.

[Nilfennasion]

I don't personally care what format does what, but I know what I saw with my own two eyes, and I know enough to know that Philips didn't just record footage onto a disc and then alter it to look that way.

Of course, I haven't found out if it was an effect of the Philips recorder playing back the disc, but as I have intimated, I simply prefer +R because the DVD Consortium is in favour of -R. Anything supported by the same people who gave us Region Codes is something I wish extinction upon by default.

[tim6661234]

Right so this is a settop box issue with -RW.
+RW does packet writing better I beleive but you're got to remember that the minus format came out way before plus so it should be better. Infact it should be so much better that we all use it. But that's not happened.

It would be interesting to see a demo using RAM that's suposed to be even better for settops. You can watch one program while recording another and of course the capacity can be higher.

[Nilfennasion]

I really don't think a format's age is relevant to its comparative merit. In the end, it will come down to which format is supported more by consumers and techies alike. DVD-RAM definitely seems doomed to the niche market, which is a real pity considering that they can be used like floppies for data. It makes backing up the contents of my hard drive for the imminent upgrade much less time-consuming.

It is my belief that the format that is easier for Joe Average to use will dominate. If Joe Average gets a digital camcorder, transfers his home videos to -RW, and finds the flickering problem, he is going to switch to +RW in a big hurry.

I know one man who has a standalone recorder that can handle DVD-RAM. I would like to get a hold of him and ask him about the use of the format in home recording, for sure.

Tomorrow, I am going to go to the local Big W and buy a five-pack of DVD-Rs. Once I do this, I should be hours away from sorting out which format works with my standalone players. Which could be fun. Or I could always go the whole hog and set up a computer to plug into the television, in which case the compatibility of formats will no longer matter.

[tompika]

Uninstall all your packet writing applications (InCD, etc), sometimes it solves other DVD+RW writing problems.

[Nilfennasion]

I wouldn't know which ones are packet-writing applications. At the moment, I have enough recorders on my drive for a small army. B's Gold Recorder (which I am eager to rid myself of), neoDVDplus, and Nero are the ones I have used so far. I am starting to wonder what the right one is.

[tompika]

You don't need to uninstall whole burning softwares.
Uninstall their packet writing part only

InCD (NERO)
DLA (RecordNowMax)
Direct CD (Roxio)

[tim6661234]

I've lost it a bit here. Are you talking about stand alone recorders or PC based writers. Cos lets face it, its a different audience. And whats good for one is not going to be automatically good for the other.

Format age is relevant to understand why + has some advantages over -

This is a perfect example. But when we have dual layer will this be a problem? Who knows?

I personally don't care if one format wins or if they co-exist and the winner will not necessarily be the best, look at Beta max. It will be price and how much the manufactures push them. If we were going to get the best currently available I think they'd all be RAM anyway.

I'm happy with my -R's as I can get the disks cheaper than +R's and I don't have a Standalone anyway. I waited for +R to come out but the promise's of better compatibility didn't seem to be true so I bought my pioneer. Let's face it they all lie to get your $ or £ or what ever. You can't trust manufactures and their marketing departments but we all know that by now!

[lechtin]

Nilfennasion

I ran in the same problems you did. If you have not done it yet, take the DVD you have burnt on DVD+RW and that works on your PC. Use Nero and copy it to a DVD-RW, DVD+R, and DVD-R. Then you'll find out what works best on your players. I found out that way that one of mine plays everything and the other plays everything BUT DVD+RW.

[Wetmonkey]

Use RecordNow Max. Solved my problems.

[Shudder]

Toshiba's old players won't play crap, that's just the way it is.

I sadly had to replace my 2109 with a newer one, but ah well, it works out. Got a $50 apex which I can't stand because it seems cheap players skip at chapter points of authored dvds (not copied ones). The new Toshiba 3960 I replaced it with handles - and + without any issues so far, and considerably quicker than the apex anyway.

Oh, and the picture is outstanding in comparison to the damned cheapo.

Anyway man, just get a newer machine, you'll probably spend more money on testing out discs than you would just throwing down 70 on a new player. And why would you stay away from toshiba if you've had such great luck? Just because they're trying to get average pan and scan vhs retards to buy their product doesn't mean they're ignoring all the things people who bought them before like.

[Nilfennasion]

First of all, I tried burning the disc onto a DVD-R this morning, and it has so far worked on one of the players (the SD-1300, about to try the SD-1250). So thanks, one and all, for your help. I'm very happy so far.

I'm still much in favour of +R over -R, only using the latter for compatibility reasons (the ability to play copies in standalones being a primary factor in everything), but in a few years this will probably become a non-issue, anyway.

Shudder, you're absolutely right. Toshiba's older players are not known for their compatibility, but I don't buy DVD players because of what they can play. When I first got into the format in 1999, a player that could play CD-Rs was impossible to find, and the first ones that did all suffered one major problem in that they couldn't play back DVD-Video very well. Nowadays, the big name brands are including CD-R and CD-RW support, so that isn't such a problem. But whenever I consider what player I am buying, I always go for decoding quality first. Everything else is secondary as far as I am concerned. Compatibility only applies where soundtracks are concerned (a major reason why I was so enamoured with the Denon DVD-1600).

The main reason why I am no longer going to give Toshiba the time of day is that they could have done anything to appeal to a wider market. They could have included a free disc with their players that demonstrates why the shape of a film and the shape of a television do not match unless you go back to the 1950s or thereabouts. The results wouldn't be so instant, of course, but they would be much better for the DTV technology they are still trying to roll out here. Instead, it's 2004, and people are still thinking they see a nearly square picture when they go to the cinema.

I actually once wrote to Toshiba and told them that if DVD-Video became exclusively Pan & Scan, I'd jump off a cliff. I still hold by that promise today, because it just isn't worth owning a disc with only half the picture on it.

[RabidDog]

8) NEWBIE AT END OF ROPE..best place for 'em (forum).
I would forget the BS you have been fed about 16secs of junk and 30sec blocks, its marketing B**L****.
Use and buy whatever works in your Burner and player...more fool you if you didnt check media compatibility first. plus and minus are pretty much equal, if they werent there would be gazillions of posts about it. The same formats will still be in use on DL burners.

[northcat_8]

Nilfennasion~

Easy way -

download IMGtools from www.doom9.net (it's free), use it to make your VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders an ISO or IMG file.

Then use Decrypter > mode > ISO > write, to burn the DVD.

You can burn straight from IMGtools but I don't do that. I ONLY burn with Decrypter.