SVCD encoding problem

[nick1977]

I'm having trouble encoding an avi file to SVCD using tmpgenc 12a.
I first load the SVCD PAL template.
My source file is 625line PAL interlaced 480x576 25fps(with no frames dropped), so I set these parameters in the source file tab. I tick the interlaced box for output.
When I create the SVCD, Nero accepts it, but when I play it back on my DVD player (standalone) the picture appears to be flickering, almost as if the interlacing is mixed up or something. I've tried adjusting the field order to no effect. When you pause the picture on the DVD player it's fine, but as soon as you play it starts again. Even the logo on the screen seems to have another line under it when it's playing i.e. instead of seeing - you are seeing = but this disappears when you pause it!
I hope someone can help as I've been trying so many combinations of settings like changing the image positioning method without any effect.

Thanks
Nick

[mpack]

It sounds to me definitely like a field order screwup - the symptoms you describe point to fields which ought to be separated in time are being played next to each other.

Now, given that you say you've fiddled with the field order options in TMPGEnc, that to me leaves the possibility that field order was *very* screwed up during the original capture - or perhaps in some post processing that you've done since then (prior to encoding).

What was your capture tool? Have you run it through anything since that might have changed the field order?

[snowmoon]

What type of codec are you for your .avi. There was some discussion on the SVCD forum that TMPG 12a ignored the field order of some codecs.

[lazzonya]

when in tmpeg, try going to settings / advanced / deinterlace. double click on the check box and a new window opens up. in here you can choose from a huge list of deinterlacing options and preview the output. hopefully, one will work out for you. (just hold down on the slider bar to see the movie preview)

[mpack]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-22 11:49:45, lazzonya wrote:
when in tmpeg, try going to settings / advanced / deinterlace.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Nah. If the source is interlaced PAL and the dest is interlaced SVCD, then none of the deinterlacing options in TMPGEnc are relevant. Deinterlacing is something you do if you need to produce a deinterlaced target, like VCD. SVCD supported interlacing directly, so there's no need to compromise, such as by creating one field out of a blend of the original, real, fields - or even throwing out of of the fields entirely.

[mpack]

To Nick:

Another thought occurred to me... This thing you said about a minus (-) looking like an equals (=). Is this for everything, or only when objects or the camera is in motion?

If its only moving objects then its a field order problem, as I suggested before.

If it happens to everything then it sounds like a severe "field bob"-alike capture problem, probably from using a dodgy capture card or driver.

[nick1977]

Thanks everyone for your input.
I'll try to answer most of the questions that I can!
I am capturing using a Hauppauge WinTV Go card. The software I am using is AVI_IO, and I'm, using the HuffyUV lossless codec. The image format is YUY2.
I am capturing at 480x576 at 25fps and dropping no frames.
The '-' becoming '=' symptom is visible constantly, but only really noticeable on the channel logo (Sky One, for those living in the UK).

Hope this helps to see what the problem might be

Thanks again everyone

Nick

[nick1977]

oh, and I haven't done any processing on the file. I just captured it, and loaded it straight into TMPGenc 12a

Nick

[mas71]

This is about the same problem as I have,only that I am using Adobe Premiere 6 and LSX Encoder 3.5 plugin for premiere in conjunction with a Pinnacle DC30 capture card.

Now the quality of the video is great, sharp and all hardly any breakups or blockiness, BUT...
During horizontal panning scenes the flickering at the top of the screen gets really annoying. I use upper fields setting. I have also tried lower fields setting but the the flickering appears att the lower part of the screen instead.

All this happens when I capture to 704x576 or 768x576 and tries to produce 480x576 SVCD PAL for playback on a standalone DVD player.
I suspect that all this comes from the horizontal resizing process and that's really sad because this is a really great combo otherwise.
Anyone have the same problem.

[mpack]

Nick, one thing you could try is this:

On the "advanced" tab in TMPGenc, set "Video source type: Interlace", "Field order: Top field first (field A)", "Source aspect ratio: 4:3 Display" and "Video arrange method: Full screen".

All this will make your source settings the same as mine, and since I don't get your problem it may help pin down whether the problem is your TMPGEnc settings or your source AVI file.

You may have to change the field order to "Bottom field first (field B)" if you get jittery video using my settings. In fact I suggest you do a quick low quality encode of the first minute of video, just to see what the result is.

[nick1977]

Thanks mpack, I'll try that this evening and let you know how I get on

Nick

[nick1977]

Just checked, my tmpgenc hasn't got Video Arrange method: full screen as an option - it only has:

Center
Center (preserve aspect ratio)
Center (custom size)
Fit to frame
Fit to frame (preserve aspect ratio)
Fit to frame (preserve aspect ratio 2)
Cover frame (preserve aspect ratio)

now I'm completely confused!

Nick

[mpack]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-23 13:31:09, nick1977 wrote:
Just checked, my tmpgenc hasn't got Video Arrange method: full screen as an option...
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm using TMPGEnc beta 12j, which has this option. Which version are you using? If an older one, perhaps you should consider downloading 12j (storing it in a separate folder if you want to be careful) - this is assuming that 12j is still available from the website, which I haven't checked.

Alternatively, you could just try one of the options you *do* have. I would try one of the "Center" options - avoid the "keep aspect ratio" variants.

[nick1977]

Thanks for all your help mpack, but I think I've found the problem (and solved it!).
I looked again at Lukes videoguide, an excellent site which I have gained no end of helpful info from.
I shows an example of exactly what I had, and applying the "filed swap" filter in virtualdub cured it completely!
Now all I need to do is learn how to frame serve from virtualdub to tmpgenc 12a (or I may try to find beta 12j) so I don't need twice as much HD space. OR....see if my PC can handle applying the filter when capturing...PIII 500MHz I guess I haven't a prayer!
Anyway, thanks again for all your help mpack.

Nick

[mpack]

That's very odd... If swapping field order in VirtualDUB cures the problem then you should have got the same result by changing the field order in TMPGEnc... unless the field ordering feature is broken in TMPGEnc 12a: I wouldn't know since I never used that version.

Ah well, at least you're making progress!

[nick1977]

I know what you mean about it being the same process....but using "field swap" in VirtualDUB almost seems to repair the picture. Sounds odd I know, but there you go.
I did try changing the fields in tmpgenc 12a but it didn't have the same effect.
As I said in my last post, check Lukes video guide (link available on vcdhelp page), and it shows exactly my problem under the interlacing section.

Nick

[flumpf]

what is link for Luke's videoguide?