Need advice before buying DV VideoCamera

[deepdown]

I own a Sony DCR-TRV890E. After several repairs...
..now the DV-IN got broken. (auch)
And feed up with doing repairs on it..

Want to buy a new camera with DV-IN/OUT, which use DV-cassettes.

My new camera "can be" large/big, but has to be of good quality!
(also cheap to repair would be nice )

Suggestions ?

[thor300]

Got sony also, the quality sucks bigtime, just got it back from repair, never sony again. By the way, Sony "won" a consumers test in europe a few years back for "what brand spends most time being repaired". Actually an "unknown" brand of vidcams won but they were being sold only in britain anyway, guess noone was stupid enough to import them to any other euro country, so it didnt really count, sony was the worst quality. Great picture quality but thats all Sony can offer. Canon has nice price and many times test winner for "most cam for the money", i have my second canon digital stillpic cam already, no way im changing brand there, and my next vidcam will be canon too.

[deepdown]

Hey, interesting reading!! Thanx!
I feel the same as you.. that sony offers good pictures quality..
But when it comes to service, parts etc...

Some people say that they camera works perfect.. and others have several problems. Seems like there are production faults - if you ask me.

Would be nice to read the "worst service repair vendor" list

Then I put;
1 - Canon 0 - Sony

[thor300]

Sony got good service here (Norway) and get parts fast enough, cant say anything bad about them when it comes to that part, its the part that it need service at all i dont like. I had lots of accidents with my first canon digitalcam, falling down and being dropped and so on. Some kids used to borrow it and fight about using it, so very solid for sure, it never gave up, even if i hope it did by now; it got stolen 2 years ago.

[BSR]

I have the Sony DCR-PC101.
Had it for 2 years now with no problems.
I can honestly say I would buy another Sony.
I wanted compactness with a lot of features and Sony offered this at the time.

But if my camera gave me a lot of headaches like yours did, then maybe it would be a different story.
Some things on it seem cheap though, like the flimbsy covers for all the connectors.
One thing I do love, not sure if other companies offer it though, is the touch screen display over the LCD to access the menus. Makes things really fast and convenient.

Good luck with your decision.

[deepdown]

Hehe, actually I bought my 890E camera used in sweden.
Then it got broken.. made annoying sound on the tape.
Then changed mic's and stuff...had to fix it for 2000,- SEK.
Then later.. something else got broken..
Sony Norway would sponsor anything, but Sony Sweden did (go sweden) I had to pay 1400,- SEK in service and sony paid about 4000,- SEK for the parts.

..now the DV-IN have been busted.
They want 2200,- NOK to fix it.. and 2500 SEK to fix it here in sweden..
Its better to buy a new camera for that mater. No way I'm paying that much to fix some DV-IN failure. (f...)

[deepdown]

BSR;
Yes - as you write - your sony has been fail-free for 2 years.
Our camera is -99 modell. And after 3 years, things started happening.

Thank you for posting your comments.
Possition now:
Canon 1 - 1 Sony

[thor300]

Our Sony here was repaired for NOK 1600 last week, was tempting to add 2500 to get a brand new Canon MV700, but that one is FW out only, another 7-900 for the MV700i, so paid the repair and hope it will last another year, it still got very good picture quality anyway.

[BSR]

thor300,

What Sony camera do you have and how old is it?

[thor300]

It was bought sometime in 2000. Its Digital8 btw, i must change my vcdhelp profile so people dont think i got miniDV. Am not sure of the full model name, my sis got it till thursday, but i think DCR-TRV320E.

[LRD]

I have had good luck with Panasonic products. My DV is 2-3 years old, with no problems. I also hear good things about the Canons. Re the latter, they are nice and small plus reasonably priced. If I was in the market, I would closely look at the Canon ZR70, and the models just above and below. Make sure to get an optical zoom in the 20x range. Also make sure the still camera function uses a card and not the tape. Lastly, look for USB. I had to buy a firewire card because mine was not equiped with USB.

LRD

[BSR]

Lastly, look for USB. I had to buy a firewire card because mine was not equiped with USB.
LRD

USB for DV transfer?
I do believe looking for this option will seriously limit you in your search for a new DVcam.

[deepdown]

usb can't transfer video. (not that I know of..)
firewire is what you need for that!

[deepdown]

My sony has enabled dv-in.
Can I do this on the Canon modell aswell ?

[LRD]

Actually, USB can transfer data. The more expensive Panasonic had this option. The firewire certainly provides integrated access, allowing your software editing program to control your camera during editing. I don't know about USB control, because mine doesn't have it. You should check the Canon website for specs. I would be guessing.

LRD

[troyvcd1]

I think that all these sub $1000 dv cameras are a crapshot. They are really made cheap and if you ever open one up like I did you would be amazed at the cheapness. Next camera I get will be over $2000 and hopefully a better picture and more reliable. I think that I should of got the good one in the first place but I am sure I am like a lot of people with cheap dv cameras.

[dwight55]

Troyvcd gave some excellent advice, providing you can pony up 2000 or more for the camera. I have done some work with a local TV studio and they will only use 3 chip cameras, . . . gives you broadcast quality video for this price.
I personally have owned two Sony's, both analog, one is almost 15 years old and still works fine [Video 8 PRO]. The other is a HandyCam and I am pleased as punch with it.
Most important thing one can do with a video camera is remember that it is a delicate electronic instrument, . . . and should be treated as such.
May God bless,
Dwight

[deepdown]

troyvcd1;
as to info, when the Sony TRV890E came out - it did cost over $3500. (that was in -99, Norway)

So one would think that paying much, would give you equal quality. But as I have experienced - that is wrong!

I'm no clumsy and do know how to handle electonic with care. I also own a Sony GX900ES souround reciever. Which suddenly stopped working at the left speaker. (haven't found the fault yet.. but looking into that)
This cost over $1000.

So I do have expensive equipment from Sony. But this dosen't make the stuff any better.

That said - I don't buy cheap electronics, because then they often tend to fail more often. But buying good AND cheap - like Canon (?) is what I want now.

Actually - my point is to get a DV device with DV-in/out, so I can use the PC to edit movies, and then recording them back to tape again.

[firefoxx]

Sony is like any other brand. There can be manufacturing defects, and the products can deteriorate over time. Some people have good experiences, some have bad. However, it is wrong to say that all Sony products suck because some have broken, since that would mean that Sony would be the target of millions of class action lawsuits. Sony marketing is good, but with the popularity of Sony products, a huge run of defective products would not go unnoticed.

I have personally had two cheap (sub $500) Sony consumer grade camcorders, a Video8 model I had for six years, and a Digital 8 model for 4 years. Both have not failed me, and have had no defects (other than having to change a worn-out battery). I don't treat them very fell, don't use a carrying case, and have even taken them apart to see what was inside. They have been used quite often, for long, extended shoots.

However, my experience does not mean that all Sony products will last for years and years. It doesn't even mean that these particular models will last. It simply means that IN MY CASE, they have done well. Nothing else. If I buy a car and it breaks down in the first week, it doesn't mean that ALL cars of this model will break down. It COULD mean a million things, but it's stupid to jump to conclusions.

[proxyx99]

To draw a conclusion about a particular brand based on a single case is just not right. I like Sony a lot but their products are not free from defects, that's for sure. In general Sony lasted me longer then any other brand name so I stick with it. Repair costs for Sony products are really outrageous though. Broken plastic flap-door on the front of Sony TV (size 1x5 inches) was 30 $. Outrageous.
Back to cams. You may check Pana 3 CCD models like PVGS70 which delivers excellent picture and is below 1000 bucks (!). Sony's single chip in low light are a notch better but in good lighting conditions this cam is just great. They also have 953, 3 CCD model (don't recall full model symbol). Also rated excellent. Do some research but these are worth looking at. Check Canon (not my pick at consumer level), Pana and Sony. Other brands seem to be less atractive but it depends on your budget and prefs.

[deepdown]

firefoxx; I do agree with you. I shouldn't base my "hate" if you can call it that on just one/two repairs... As you said, your Video8 and Digital8 has last very long without failure. It might be true that these "bigger" devices have better "long-life", than these "mini -DV cassettes camcorders".

proxyx99; repairing sony is insane. For the price I have paid of my used camera, only 4-5 years old, I'm now close up to $500 in repairs..
So i'm not doing any repair (fixing the DV-IN) on the camera. Instead I'm buying a new camera instead. Its cheaper in the long run. (thanx to Sony's repair cost) I will check out PVGS70 at my local dealer/internet.

Actually - what I really would like is a standalone player/recorder. But quess what - they cost much more than Camcorders. Why is this ???
It must be much cheaper to build a standalone play/rec device, right ?
(loots of pictures; http://www.samysdv.com/whatsnew.htm)
(Sony GV-D1000, JVC HR-DVS3EU, JVC SR-VS30E)

[proxyx99]

Never said anything about you repairing your camera, but, since you brought it up, it may be worth visiting couple of small camera/electronics repair shops to get their take on it. DV-in repair is a simple job (may be labour intensive, depending on access). They can easily cut repair cost to 25% of Sony Service (been there, done that).

[firefoxx]

Yes, Sony is really outrageous when you think about accessories and repairs. I see sony selling the firewire cable for 90 bucks, while it's really easy to get it for only 20.

You know, once you put a product in for repair, it's never the same. Also, depending on the shop, a repair might just lead to another repair. I think everyone has had the experience of getting something fixed only to find another problem has been introduced by the "repairman".

About a standalone recorder, the cheapest (Digital8) standalone from Sony is about 700 bucks (and it doesn't even have a screen). That's why many people just buy a normal, cheap camera (400 bucks) with video/dv in and use it as a recorder. Plus, you get a backup camcorder.

[deepdown]

proxyx99; DV-in a simple repair ? Serious ??

Okey, here is more to the story. I asked sony in norway, and they told me that a IC had to be changed. Would cost 2200 NOK ($300).
Then I called some service shop in sweden and asked the same...
"sweden" told me that they had to either replace the IC, would cost 2500 SEK ($300 too) + transport cost $40.

OR
If they camera was badly damaged, they would have to ship the camera to Belgium and replace the whole board inside the camera (F...), and that would cost much more..

If I could change the IC myself, I will! I know how to solder, so I would need a blueprint of the camera/card and the IC which I have to replace.
(maybe the guys at http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/ knows anything ?)

In the search I found DV-IN enabler; http://www.smartdv.co.uk/product.php/30/0/

[proxyx99]

Sony service is in here for big money. They are not going to make sweet deals. Only small shops do that. I assume that FW connector is bad, they asume it's a circuit. Have it appraised (50$) and decide then. Don't speak with Sony but rather a little guy. It's impossible to argue it here. The choice is yours and you know your options. No miracle is gonna happen here. Service manuals are at Sony author. service shops, go ask and they will make one avail. to you (at least to read/browse on site).

[deepdown]

I did as you adviced.. but none of the repair men want to touch Sony. They just tell me too "you have to talk to the authorized sony dealer, blabla"...

I have now got the sony service manual- and if possible and doable, I would like the fix the problem myself. Hoping not to bust the camera

And seems like these Sony guys don't want to share info - and that is pain!
Other brand people often like if they are able to help, take HP. There you can get a technical dude on the phone, and he would tell you how to disable stuff in the registry, on the computer. (but yea, I know that computers are abit different than handheld electronics..)

Again, thank you all for contributing. I will in the future go for electronics that are more stabile, and that "local service men" can handle.
(I think Canon or Panasonic is my next camera, unless I can get my hands on a Sony GV-D1000 or similar)

[deepdown]

http://shopping.yahoo.com/p_sony-gv-d300_vcrs_1990607303

This is what I'm looking for!
But is it as good as the TRV890E ? (it says something about 500 lines..)

You technical guys, would you recommend buying this ?

[terjeber]

http://shopping.yahoo.com/p_sony-gv-d300_vcrs_1990607303

This is what I'm looking for!
But is it as good as the TRV890E ?

Just curious - what do you need it for? Just for the DV-IN part? All the newer camcorders have DV IN afaik (at least the canons) and most of them cost far less than this. And you get a camcorder thrown in as well...

I am probably missing something here...

[deepdown]

Yes - but i'm guessing a camcorder would probebly fail in about 2-4 years, while this "only record/play" would last forever..

Or would device have the same "fail-ratio" as another dv camera ?

[proxyx99]

Frankly, I would forget the DV-in. Buy Datavideo dac-100 or advc-100 from Canopus and you will be able to continue doing whatever you were doing. When the time comes scrap the cam and go for whatever appeals to you.